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Author Topic: Okay lets get to it.... Obama or McCain  (Read 13475 times)

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FNGw/08SERK

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Re: Okay lets get to it.... Obama or McCain
« Reply #150 on: August 31, 2008, 10:48:24 PM »



Part IV
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comfortablynumb

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Re: Okay lets get to it.... Obama or McCain
« Reply #151 on: September 01, 2008, 09:06:52 AM »

I feel your pain , and it won't be great for a lot of us but the truth is that if we don't raise taxes we have even bigger problems down the road. At some point you have to pay the piper for the debt G Bush has left us, and waiting will not work. You know from your own life you can  spend and spend but at some point have to pay the bill and the time is now. Bush was left with a balanced budget and he pissed it away and then some and the die hard republicans did nothing to put him in check . So we now have to clean up there mess . Greed was the Republican philosophy  for the last 8 years , thank them for the need to raise taxes.
I would like to start by complimenting all who have contributed to this thread as I am impressed BIG TIME by the amount and time,thought and passion that most have obviously taken before speaking. Not a lot of off the cuff, or media BS being used as fact.well done to all, makes you kinda proud as this is what America is all about. Now for my opinion. The problem with the economy is that the middle class which built and made the U.S. what it was,great and powerful, is virtually gone and with it it's tax base, which pays for the country to run. With 21% of technical jobs being sent offshore(out of the country), the income tax no longer goes into the kitty.Take 20% of your family income away and try to make it by. Then give corporations tax breaks and/or incentives for reasons that run the entire spectrum of disbelief(tax credits for oil companies for exploration and developement of NEW FUELS) while making record PROFITS year after year. You and I are not eligible for these breaks.However, the revenue that is lost from these credits must be made up by someone JUST TO BREAK EVEN. This does not take into consideration normal increases from raises,benefit increases etc.If the corporations were taxed at the same amount for sending jobs offshore as they would if the jobs were kept here it would satisfy 2 problems:1) the tax base would remain stable 2)the added expense and headache of sending out jobs without the benefit of tax credits would keep these jobs here.I don't know the percent of lost jobs, but guess 3-5%(CAFTA< NAFTA and other mistakes). 5% plus 20% = 25% of our income no longer exists. The result is politically created cutbacks on services that the GOV't OWES us since we're paying for  them. Now since the pols don't want to be labeled as take awayers, they borrow money that we don't have( we're borrowing millions from China to buy our imported oil while we continue to export almost 40% of the petroleum that comes out of our soil.)The so;ution is simple,get involved,get educated, and stop your bitchin and get off your lazy ass and vote the SOBs out. Get your neighbor out and take them to the polls. the politicians bank on the apathy that the American people show at election time. When they realize that we are paying attention again, they will too.Also eliminate the House of Reps and the Senate's automatic salary increases and base it on their participation. How many votes did they make as compared to how many did they miss. Ever watch the Senate on cable? One passionate Senator speaking in a virtually empty Senate chamber. Let them pay for some of their own healthcare, and then on retirement,have them survive ontheir savings and Social Security instead of a special TAX FUNDED FULL SALARY retirement account.We've let them become the elitists that they believe they are and now we just have to teach them otherwise.And finally,(aren't you glad), The check and balance of the House of Reps and Senate vs. the Presidential power is the best on the planet,but like a old,comfortable car, it needs to be tuned up once in a while.
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vagabond6542

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Re: Okay lets get to it.... Obama or McCain
« Reply #152 on: September 03, 2008, 05:11:42 PM »

I would like to start by complimenting all who have contributed to this thread as I am impressed BIG TIME by the amount and time,thought and passion that most have obviously taken before speaking. Not a lot of off the cuff, or media BS being used as fact.well done to all, makes you kinda proud as this is what America is all about. Now for my opinion. The problem with the economy is that the middle class which built and made the U.S. what it was,great and powerful, is virtually gone and with it it's tax base, which pays for the country to run. With 21% of technical jobs being sent offshore(out of the country), the income tax no longer goes into the kitty.Take 20% of your family income away and try to make it by. Then give corporations tax breaks and/or incentives for reasons that run the entire spectrum of disbelief(tax credits for oil companies for exploration and developement of NEW FUELS) while making record PROFITS year after year. You and I are not eligible for these breaks.However, the revenue that is lost from these credits must be made up by someone JUST TO BREAK EVEN. This does not take into consideration normal increases from raises,benefit increases etc.If the corporations were taxed at the same amount for sending jobs offshore as they would if the jobs were kept here it would satisfy 2 problems:1) the tax base would remain stable 2)the added expense and headache of sending out jobs without the benefit of tax credits would keep these jobs here.I don't know the percent of lost jobs, but guess 3-5%(CAFTA< NAFTA and other mistakes). 5% plus 20% = 25% of our income no longer exists. The result is politically created cutbacks on services that the GOV't OWES us since we're paying for  them. Now since the pols don't want to be labeled as take awayers, they borrow money that we don't have( we're borrowing millions from China to buy our imported oil while we continue to export almost 40% of the petroleum that comes out of our soil.)The so;ution is simple,get involved,get educated, and stop your bitchin and get off your lazy ass and vote the SOBs out. Get your neighbor out and take them to the polls. the politicians bank on the apathy that the American people show at election time. When they realize that we are paying attention again, they will too.Also eliminate the House of Reps and the Senate's automatic salary increases and base it on their participation. How many votes did they make as compared to how many did they miss. Ever watch the Senate on cable? One passionate Senator speaking in a virtually empty Senate chamber. Let them pay for some of their own healthcare, and then on retirement,have them survive ontheir savings and Social Security instead of a special TAX FUNDED FULL SALARY retirement account.We've let them become the elitists that they believe they are and now we just have to teach them otherwise.And finally,(aren't you glad), The check and balance of the House of Reps and Senate vs. the Presidential power is the best on the planet,but like a old,comfortable car, it needs to be tuned up once in a while.

Well said, NOW if only we could get the Treasury Department tuned up. You would think they were in the Pilot's Seat. And they don't have to be elected, only appointed. :o
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VAZHOG

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Re: Okay lets get to it.... Obama or McCain
« Reply #153 on: September 03, 2008, 09:55:24 PM »

You can fill the house & Senate with all the democrats you want , They (Dems) already control the majority so if you give the whit house to the democrats you will be giving them a rubber stamp for every "earmarked" loaded bill and program to come down the pike.

Voting for complete Democrat control is for larger Gov't,more taxes,because they know how to spend your money better than you do.

You need checks and balance then you need to vote for McCain & pailn because you need someone to say NO when NO is needed.

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BIGDOG

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Re: Okay lets get to it.... Obama or McCain
« Reply #154 on: September 04, 2008, 11:00:17 AM »

You can fill the house & Senate with all the democrats you want , They (Dems) already control the majority so if you give the whit house to the democrats you will be giving them a rubber stamp for every "earmarked" loaded bill and program to come down the pike.

Voting for complete Democrat control is for larger Gov't,more taxes,because they know how to spend your money better than you do.

You need checks and balance then you need to vote for McCain & pailn because you need someone to say NO when NO is needed.
Us GW riders are the checks and ballance here . ;D ;D


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BigR55

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Re: Okay lets get to it.... Obama or McCain
« Reply #155 on: September 04, 2008, 03:53:45 PM »

And exactly how many of those do you personally know?  Or have had ANY real contact with at all?  Damn few is my bet..regurgitation is easy, but first hand experience is a different matter entirely.  Elitist?  Look in the mirror...

Obama had far from an idealistic life while growing up...yea, his mom got food stamps, and he got some help with his education.  Good for him, and it enabled her to do what otherwise might have been impossible.  A helping hand, not lifetime support.

Unfortunately I know a lot of these people you write about. In fact, it does not stop with one generation. 45 years has been long enough to produce three generations who never get up and go to work. They reproduce logarithmically. There is never anything in the system to slow or discourage this behaviour, quite the contrary, they are rewarded with greater benefits each time they produce another child. What we have done is intervein with the process of natural selection. Since the first creatures scathered out onto dry land, the survivors were the ones who adapted, protected and learned how to survive. Now, those who produce generations of non productive members of society take free rides on the backs of the ones who work.:( Flame me if you will! :sauer005:
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Keats

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Re: Okay lets get to it.... Obama or McCain
« Reply #156 on: September 04, 2008, 04:37:17 PM »

Having a bear skin on her wall just impresses the hell out of me...not!  Because she went out and killed one of the last great predators on the planet makes her one of the larger pieces of chit on the planet, in my eyes.  Killing a white tailed deer (or the equivalent), because humans have all but eliminated their natural predators by nature of our own greed and superior firepower is one thing (it's unfortunately necessary now), but killing a grizzly bear, or even a black bear, is not my idea of "sport".  Killing for food or survival is one thing, otherwise it's just to feed our (human) need to feel superior to all living things on the planet.  Makes me wanna' puke.

In my view, you go into the woods where animals like that live, you take your chances, 'cause you ain't the top of the food chain any longer, unless you've got a high powered rifle, and then it's not much of a contest.  Take a bow and arrow, or a spear/knife out there with you, and get REALLY close...see who comes out on top, then you might have someting to beat your chest about.

We could get into an entirely rabid discussion about the NRA, what the constitution promised, blah, blah, blah, but I'm not going to touch that one.  By the way, I own a couple of handguns, but they are to keep bad HUMANS away from me.

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH............
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SBB

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Re: Okay lets get to it.... Obama or McCain
« Reply #157 on: September 04, 2008, 05:25:21 PM »

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH............


FLHTCUSE3

A few facts,
There is very little in Terry's politics that I agree with.
Terry has also chosen to delete his account here on CVOharley.com.
The difference between you, me and Terry is that you and I are still members here.

Again, as much as I disagree with his politics I will not post a response to any of his previous post since he no longer a member.
That to me is wrong and I have to much respect for Terry and this site to do that.
In the past I have seen people on this site trashed when they were not in a position to respond and find that to be real chicken chit.
That is not the case here but being the chithead that I am, I will not let that happen to Terry!

SBB

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MJZ

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Re: Okay lets get to it.... Obama or McCain
« Reply #158 on: September 04, 2008, 05:27:10 PM »

Unfortunately I know a lot of these people you write about. In fact, it does not stop with one generation. 45 years has been long enough to produce three generations who never get up and go to work. They reproduce logarithmically. There is never anything in the system to slow or discourage this behaviour, quite the contrary, they are rewarded with greater benefits each time they produce another child. What we have done is intervein with the process of natural selection. Since the first creatures scathered out onto dry land, the survivors were the ones who adapted, protected and learned how to survive. Now, those who produce generations of non productive members of society take free rides on the backs of the ones who work.:( Flame me if you will! :sauer005:


If I was reading this topic, which I am clearly not, I would say very well said. :2vrolijk_21:
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MJZ

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Re: Okay lets get to it.... Obama or McCain
« Reply #159 on: September 04, 2008, 05:48:11 PM »


FLHTCUSE3

A few facts,
There is very little in Terry's politics that I agree with.
Terry has also chosen to delete his account here on CVOharley.com.
The difference between you, me and Terry is that you and I are still members here.

Again, as much as I disagree with his politics I will not post a response to any of his previous post since he no longer a member.
That to me is wrong and I have to much respect for Terry and this site to do that.
In the past I have seen people on this site trashed when they were not in a position to respond and find that to be real chicken chit.
That is not the case here but being the chithead that I am, I will not let that happen to Terry!

SBB

 :2vrolijk_21:

 

Chip, my friend, not to ruffle any more feathers but I don't agree. I suspect he is on the site either as a guest or as his girlfriend and has a post today, giving some information asked for in another thread. So as to comment on one of his previous post is certainly not picking on a defenseless entity.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 05:50:53 PM by MJZ »
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LRebel

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Re: Okay lets get to it.... Obama or McCain
« Reply #160 on: September 04, 2008, 05:53:22 PM »

 :vrolijk_11: :vrolijk_11: :vrolijk_11:

                          (Probably time to leave it alone and let it go)
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Fired00d

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Re: Okay lets get to it.... Obama or McCain
« Reply #161 on: September 04, 2008, 05:55:47 PM »

Anyone ever heard....

"Water under the bridge"?

Let's move on.

Thanks.

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MJZ

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Re: Okay lets get to it.... Obama or McCain
« Reply #162 on: September 04, 2008, 05:59:13 PM »

Anyone ever heard....

"Water under the bridge"?


We're in a drought here, there ain't no water under the bridge. ;D
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SBB

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Re: Okay lets get to it.... Obama or McCain
« Reply #163 on: September 04, 2008, 06:01:32 PM »

Anyone ever heard....

"Water under the bridge"?

Let's move on.

Thanks.

 :pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 :fireman:


Good idea!

I just want to be free to ride my machines!


O chit!
My life sucks!
I'm starting to quote Hoist.
Shoot me, , , , please!
 :o :o :o :o :o :o
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Re: Okay lets get to it.... Obama or McCain
« Reply #164 on: September 04, 2008, 06:22:13 PM »


Good idea!

I just want to be free to ride my machines!


O chit!
My life sucks!
I'm starting to quote Hoist.
Shoot me, , , , please!
 :o :o :o :o :o :o

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Hoist! 8)
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