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Author Topic: SEEG TOP DOG'S  (Read 10137 times)

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hd2003-se2005

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Re: SEEG TOP DOG'S
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2005, 09:24:39 PM »

And fatboy

I asked Black Dog to post that information.

He can back it up if needed.

I thought it was very relevant to this topic.

So for every 6 lbs of weight on your bike your giving away 1 horsepower.

How do you get free horsepower, lose weight!


And to bring it full circle, the skinny guy vrs. the fat [smiley=cry2.gif]guy on the like equipped SEEG, guess what.

Skinny guy is TOP DOG

« Last Edit: July 14, 2005, 09:28:38 PM by hd2003-se2005 »
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110tHunDer

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Re: SEEG TOP DOG'S
« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2005, 09:30:11 PM »


Off-topic [smiley=oops.gif], but see new sig.  (Beat ya to it, Chip! [smiley=ROFLOL.gif])
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hd2003-se2005

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Re: SEEG TOP DOG'S
« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2005, 09:33:57 PM »

 [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

I love it!

I damn sure need to try that approach!
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Fatboy

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Re: SEEG TOP DOG'S
« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2005, 10:50:33 PM »

Quote
And fatboy


He can back it up if needed.

I thought it was very relevant to this topic.

So for every 6 lbs of weight on your bike your giving away 1 horsepower.





Hd2003,

Does that theory also apply when the bike is on the DynoJet? [smiley=confused5.gif]

If so that could really skew the number's that have been posted...........  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]


Twolanerider

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Re: SEEG TOP DOG'S
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2005, 11:25:16 PM »

Quote

Hd2003,

 Does that theory also apply when the bike is on the DynoJet? [smiley=confused5.gif]

 If so that could really skew the number's that have been posted...........  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]


Fatboy the weight factor on the bike will increase the drag.  More at higher speeds.  Fixed on the dyno though all your measuring is the transfer of power through the rear wheel to the dyno.  The weight on the seat won't affect that measure.

Don't thing of weight on the bike making the bike generate less horsepower.  The weight on the bike doesn't affect how much horsepower is generated, just how much is used.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2005, 07:44:01 AM by 103tHunDer »
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hd2003-se2005

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Re: SEEG TOP DOG'S
« Reply #65 on: July 15, 2005, 07:01:14 AM »

Quote


Hd2003,

Does that theory also apply when the bike is on the DynoJet? [smiley=confused5.gif]

If so that could really skew the number's that have been posted...........  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
**************************************************************

Actually Fatboy the weight of the dyno operator can make a difference!

If you get a reading with the dyno operator sitting on the bike and then another with the operator still on the bike but with their feet touching the ground (no weight on the seat) the #'s will be higher.

So yes, that "FACT" (not theory) does apply.

Another way to increase the #s on the dyno chart is to increase the air pressure in the rear tire. More air more power!


So it's all relative,



[smiley=laugh.gif]
« Last Edit: July 15, 2005, 07:03:49 AM by hd2003-se2005 »
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hd2003-se2005

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Re: SEEG TOP DOG'S
« Reply #66 on: July 15, 2005, 07:07:47 AM »

Don

Your statement is correct, but I need to add to it.


Quote,
"Don't think of weight on the bike making the bike generate less horsepower.  The weight on the bike doesn't affect how much horsepower is generated, just how much is used. "
The weight on the bike during testing can alter the readings that the dyno will show.

Chip
« Last Edit: July 15, 2005, 07:09:15 AM by hd2003-se2005 »
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Twolanerider

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Re: SEEG TOP DOG'S
« Reply #67 on: July 15, 2005, 10:02:55 AM »

Quote
So it's all relative,
 [smiley=laugh.gif]


Yeah Chip without mentioning it I was assuming static conditions for the rider as a control.  Though the production by the engine still stays the same in any case.  The only difference is still where/how/doing what that power gets used up.

However.....  it seems really uncool to be bringing fat relatives in to this discussion  [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
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HUBBARD

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Re: SEEG TOP DOG'S
« Reply #68 on: July 15, 2005, 12:44:38 PM »

Quote
And fatboy

I asked Black Dog to post that information.

He can back it up if needed.

I thought it was very relevant to this topic.

So for every 6 lbs of weight on your bike your giving away 1 horsepower.

How do you get free horsepower, lose weight!


And to bring it full circle, the skinny guy vrs. the fat [smiley=cry2.gif]guy on the like equipped SEEG, guess what.

Skinny guy is TOP DOG



Sooooooooooo, hd2003,
 Taking into account my limited knowledge concerning the dynamics of Physics, would I be correct in assuming if one particular Motorsickle weighed 150 lbs. more than the other, and the heavier Motorsickle had 5 more HP by the "Hallowed" Dyno Sheet than the the other, the lighter Motorsickle would, in fact, have a 20 Horsepower advantage on the heavier one? Seems rather extreme to me.  Please advise.  Later--HUBBARD              
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Dr. Evil

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Re: SEEG TOP DOG'S
« Reply #69 on: July 15, 2005, 01:01:59 PM »

So by that crazy math....  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

Me                 275
passenger     130

405lbs total

divided by 6 is 67.5!

So my SEEG has 31 horsepower when were on it.
My Road Glide has basically NONE... because 67.5 is probably more than a stock 88 has!
And my Springer - same story.  

I think you better check your math because we rode all the way to Maggie Valley with zero (actually negative as we had 100lbs of crap on the bike) horsepower!  [smiley=dunce2.gif]

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HUBBARD

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Re: SEEG TOP DOG'S
« Reply #70 on: July 15, 2005, 01:38:46 PM »

Quote
So by that crazy math....  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

Me                 275
passenger     130

405lbs total

divided by 6 is 67.5!

So my SEEG has 31 horsepower when were on it.
My Road Glide has basically NONE... because 67.5 is probably more than a stock 88 has!
And my Springer - same story.  

I think you better check your math because we rode all the way to Maggie Valley with zero (actually negative as we had 100lbs of crap on the bike) horsepower!  [smiley=dunce2.gif]



Yeah, 'er 'uh, DJW,
 I think Chip's starting point is Stock HP coupled with published weight.  But what the hell do I know?  I was flogged once for saying, "Weight is Horsepower", here, so I'll wait for the formula.  Later--HUBBARD  
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hd2003-se2005

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Re: SEEG TOP DOG'S
« Reply #71 on: July 15, 2005, 01:45:11 PM »

Whoa guys!

That's Tater and DJW


And I'm quoting myself,

"I asked Black Dog to post that information.

He can back it up if needed."
***********************************************

I just talked to Black Dog on the phone.

He's at work but he WILL post the math.

Knowing how mathmatically talented DJW, Tater and others on this site are,  you can be assured that i didn't whip those #'s out of my a$$.

The 6 lbs. per horsepower is correct!


More to follow!
« Last Edit: July 15, 2005, 01:48:38 PM by hd2003-se2005 »
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Dr. Evil

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Re: SEEG TOP DOG'S
« Reply #72 on: July 15, 2005, 01:56:20 PM »

Well Chip, somebody musta whipped it outta somebody's a$$  [smiley=laugh.gif]

It just doesn't make any sense [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

How does a motorcycle (nearly stock TC88) loaded with 405lbs of people.... and conservatively 50-75lbs (ok, 100 was an exaggeration) of crap.... move 90mph for most of 750 miles (each way) with no horsepower?

480 divided by 6 = 80!  That bike probably makes 70 horse on a good day.
So I'm 10 horse in the hole, without even considering the weight of the bike! [smiley=confused5.gif]
« Last Edit: July 15, 2005, 02:01:33 PM by DJW »
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Twolanerider

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Re: SEEG TOP DOG'S
« Reply #73 on: July 15, 2005, 02:01:15 PM »

Quote
Whoa guys!

The 6 lbs. per horsepower is correct!


More to follow!
 


That's another of those "as far as it goes" kind of things Chip.  Once a rolling mass starts rolling it's not the increased weight in isolation that uses up greater amounts of energy (in our case measured horsepower).  Remember, the actual horsepower output of the engine will (for the purposes of the measures we're looking at) stay the same.  What we're actually taking about is how much of it goes to parasitic losses like drag due to increased weight.  And that takes us back to the beginning.  

Weight, in isolation, won't give a static loss of some amount of horsepower (transferrable).  Weight will increase drag.  That's actually what we're talking about here.  I've never seen aero drag numbers for an Electra Glide so can't calculate for you what the amount of increased drag will be for increased weights at differetn speeds.  But it's the drag that causes the "performance" loss.

The effect of drag will go up (exponentially) as speed increases.  So the performance drag on a rolling mass (our bikes) of 10 pounds at 20 mph will be less than the loss due to that same 10 pounds at 80 mph unless something else changes aerodynamically between those speeds to change the amount of drag.  But since our bikes don't have a variable sweep wing to change aerodynamics over a speed range like, say, the old F14 our drag only gets worse as we go faster.

So, yeah, both directly and indirectly weight "costs" horsepower.  After all, it takes more push to get something going that weighs 900 pounds than it does soemthing that weighs 800 pounds.  So that part is only obvious.  But the greater loss at speed will be drag and that will increase more the faster we go.  The curve may be smooth but the number won't be static.
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Dr. Evil

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Re: SEEG TOP DOG'S
« Reply #74 on: July 15, 2005, 02:02:48 PM »

That was my point as well... the number CANNOT be static.  It's impossible.
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