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[Flying Ace]

Hi Guys!
Been a while since I've posted, but I've been lurking a long time.

I'm just finishing up a cross country trip from PA to San Fancisco, up the coast and back across the northern states on my 2007 CVO Smurf.

I had my rear head gasket leak again and when I took it to the dealer in ND, they did a "recall" and replaced both heads!!  I was greatful for that even if it cost me a day!


Well, anyway, I'm looking at the new 09...

Should I?  Is this engine reliable now two years later??  Or am I looking for the same problem down the road?

Any thoughts?

[Unbalanced]

I think it is a great question, here are the thoughts I had on it.

Newer Gaskets were they the real problem, I dont think so they just built in more play is my feeling.  Get the moco past 2 years of warranty.
New Heads, the heads were replaced.  The question is were they replaced due to heat and hot temps or a real fix, doesnt seem to be a real fix.

The question of heat keeps coming up and people are saying the new 09 bikes with 110 are just as hot.  My presumption is that this is a heat, clamping force, and high cranking compression issue as well as a cam with little to no overlap.   Hence the new compression releases.

I hope I am wrong for all the guys getting the new 110's, but I think the issues will continue, just showing up in later miles on the bikes.  Unfortunately, it is a wait and see game.   Hopefully the guys with the later 08 versions with all the updated fixes in them will have 10 to 15k miles on them will be able to step forth and update everyone about the reliability.

I wouldnt let these issues stop you from buying a bike you really like, but I would consider putting an extra 8-10k on the side and be ready to upgrade the motor to a Jim's if need be.  Although if you have a bike you like and don't want fly by wire you might just be inclined to put a Jim's in there now and ride on

[DESERTBEAR54]

Just had the heads replaced on my early 08 SEUC and the bike runs good but I am now developing a start issue again. If the bike sits for a period of time and I go to start it it grinds and pukes out of the intake. It is not an everytime deal but most of the time. Perplexed and any thought's?

[miker]

I hope so, I bought another one...

[sooiee]

people are saying the new 09 bikes with 110 are just as hot. 

I'll have to disagree. I rode the 09 SERG (B/O) in the 105th parade.  My buddy who has an 08 CVO (B/O) Ultra was right behind me. 
Simply riding into Miller Park took nearly an hour while they lined us up.  My buddy was wincing and whining and pinging like you can't imagine.  Everybody's bikes were overheating.  My 09, the heat was almost non existant.  You heard me right...nearly non existant!!     My legs were cool and I was extremely comfortable.  So I think if anyone tells you that they are about the same...they're off their rocker or haven't ridden one.  I put the thing through the test during the 105th parade.  It performed MUCH better.  Not just slightly.  There was a HUGE difference. 

Sooiee

[9 1/2 Beers]

thank you so much for your post, i was hoping somebody would say that

[Unbalanced]

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=26930.msg436492#msg436492

You might want to check out this link since it is a complete 180 to the above post.

[drallan]

Having come from a leaky '08 and with only 500kms on a '09, I have some ititial thoughts on the '09. Less vibration, both at idle and speed. Less heat. Not gone, but noticeably less haet, Not as wallowy in corners, especially with a bump or dip. Seat is fabulous. Sit lower. Different, quieter sound at idle but still barks when you hit it. Crappy XM reception. Gotta change antenna location. I'm not an expert, especially a Harley expert. My experience is with "others". Maybe it's the new frame, engine modifications, bigger rear tire, or my imagination but can you see my smile?

[grc]

Did they fix the 110?   That is a question that can't be answered at this point, since it will take time and miles to determine with any degree of accuracy.  Since many of the '07 and '08 bikes didn't fail until they had accumulated fairly significant mileage, there aren't enough '09 models with enough mileage yet to even make an informed guess.  However, I still don't see Harley addressing the single biggest issue, in my mind at least, and that is the crankshaft.  They also haven't addressed the root cause of the leak, the cylinder liner issue.  Perhaps these items were all the result of sloppy quality from suppliers and those things have been corrected?  Maybe, but I don't want to hang my hat on hoping the supplier didn't have a bad day when my parts were made.  Obviously the MoCo doesn't catch defective parts, they just pass them along to the consumer.

I would like to see the MoCo do something different with the cams and eliminate the need for the compression releases.  I would also like to see them do something to eliminate the crank shifting issues once and for all.  Their answer so far has been to keep increasing the allowable runout specification until they could finally get parts to fall into compliance.  That's not the way I learned to make parts, where you start with an engineering requirement and specification and then build the parts to meet the specifications.  Changing the specs to meet the reality of crappy parts isn't an acceptable answer to me, but obviously the honchos at H-D think it's just lovely (and a lot cheaper).  At a time when the rest of the transportation industry is improving quality, reliability, and warranty coverage, the MoCo gives us bandaids and a two year warranty that applies more bandaids until they can get rid of you. 

I think the best advice I've seen so far is to budget an additional $5k to $10k to rework the Harley engine into something reliable.  Of course, that only works for those with deep pockets and/or a willingness to pay extra for what should be standard.  Some of us hardheads have a real difficult time with the idea of paying over $35k for a motorcycle and then having to pay more, not for custom touches but just to make the thing reliable.  I'd rather spend $20k to $25k for a BMW or Goldwing that doesn't require me to re-engineer and rebuild the engine.

JMHO - Jerry

[Hoist!]

Did they fix the 110?   That is a question that can't be answered at this point, since it will take time and miles to determine with any degree of accuracy.  Since many of the '07 and '08 bikes didn't fail until they had accumulated fairly significant mileage, there aren't enough '09 models with enough mileage yet to even make an informed guess.  However, I still don't see Harley addressing the single biggest issue, in my mind at least, and that is the crankshaft.  They also haven't addressed the root cause of the leak, the cylinder liner issue.  Perhaps these items were all the result of sloppy quality from suppliers and those things have been corrected?  Maybe, but I don't want to hang my hat on hoping the supplier didn't have a bad day when my parts were made.  Obviously the MoCo doesn't catch defective parts, they just pass them along to the consumer.

I would like to see the MoCo do something different with the cams and eliminate the need for the compression releases.  I would also like to see them do something to eliminate the crank shifting issues once and for all.  Their answer so far has been to keep increasing the allowable runout specification until they could finally get parts to fall into compliance.  That's not the way I learned to make parts, where you start with an engineering requirement and specification and then build the parts to meet the specifications.  Changing the specs to meet the reality of crappy parts isn't an acceptable answer to me, but obviously the honchos at H-D think it's just lovely (and a lot cheaper).  At a time when the rest of the transportation industry is improving quality, reliability, and warranty coverage, the MoCo gives us bandaids and a two year warranty that applies more bandaids until they can get rid of you. 

I think the best advice I've seen so far is to budget an additional $5k to $10k to rework the Harley engine into something reliable.  Of course, that only works for those with deep pockets and/or a willingness to pay extra for what should be standard.  Some of us hardheads have a real difficult time with the idea of paying over $35k for a motorcycle and then having to pay more, not for custom touches but just to make the thing reliable.  I'd rather spend $20k to $25k for a BMW or Goldwing that doesn't require me to re-engineer and rebuild the engine.

JMHO - Jerry

Should'a been that way out of the box? Absolutely! But we get a lot better performance too, doing it our way!

And I don't believe their solution to their poor engineering and quality is the fix either!

Hoist!

[Black Diamond]

Did they fix the 110?   That is a question that can't be answered at this point, since it will take time and miles to determine with any degree of accuracy.  Since many of the '07 and '08 bikes didn't fail until they had accumulated fairly significant mileage, there aren't enough '09 models with enough mileage yet to even make an informed guess.  However, I still don't see Harley addressing the single biggest issue, in my mind at least, and that is the crankshaft.  They also haven't addressed the root cause of the leak, the cylinder liner issue.  Perhaps these items were all the result of sloppy quality from suppliers and those things have been corrected?  Maybe, but I don't want to hang my hat on hoping the supplier didn't have a bad day when my parts were made.  Obviously the MoCo doesn't catch defective parts, they just pass them along to the consumer.

I would like to see the MoCo do something different with the cams and eliminate the need for the compression releases.  I would also like to see them do something to eliminate the crank shifting issues once and for all.  Their answer so far has been to keep increasing the allowable runout specification until they could finally get parts to fall into compliance.  That's not the way I learned to make parts, where you start with an engineering requirement and specification and then build the parts to meet the specifications.  Changing the specs to meet the reality of crappy parts isn't an acceptable answer to me, but obviously the honchos at H-D think it's just lovely (and a lot cheaper).  At a time when the rest of the transportation industry is improving quality, reliability, and warranty coverage, the MoCo gives us bandaids and a two year warranty that applies more bandaids until they can get rid of you. 

I think the best advice I've seen so far is to budget an additional $5k to $10k to rework the Harley engine into something reliable.  Of course, that only works for those with deep pockets and/or a willingness to pay extra for what should be standard.  Some of us hardheads have a real difficult time with the idea of paying over $35k for a motorcycle and then having to pay more, not for custom touches but just to make the thing reliable.  I'd rather spend $20k to $25k for a BMW or Goldwing that doesn't require me to re-engineer and rebuild the engine.

JMHO - Jerry

Well said Jerry. As long as the cylinders are from the same source, which I've been told they are, the more flexible gasket is a bandage on a GSW. You still bleeding, you just look better. The crank is a problem for all twin cams, the 110's just develop more torque so the crank lets go earlier.

I'm closing in on 10000 miles since my rebuild. No problems at all. That made it worth my money. Just glad I've been blessed enough that I could afford it. The MoCo should be doing the right thing for the right reason but many in American businesses are not.

[flyingwillie]

Same dilemna here.  I have the 06 103" SEUC that rides great (except for that damn seat).  BUT I usually get a new bike every couple of years.  First I thought it would be the SERG but I am now leaning toward another SEUC. In fact my dealer called me 2 hours ago and said he had one....just came in.....come see it.  Unfortunately I am  out of town and it was not my first (RED) color choice.  I don't want a bunch of problems (110) but want the new brakes and frame, etc etc.  I just assumed the problems would be fixed in the 09's. Decisions, decisions 
 

[Unbalanced]

More Feedback from another thread:

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=27403.0

[weamdog]

I've got about 920 miles on mine now with no leak, I know it's still a little early.  Personally I don't think they would do a major recall if they didn't think they had the situation fixed because there is no way they are going to want to do it again.  I do wonder if the timing had anything to do with warranties about ready to run out, after all the recall was announced just before the two year mark.  As far as heat goes, I'm just not seeing a problem but I haven't had any 100 degree days in the past 3 weeks thanks to A.G.  I don't think the rear cylinder has shutdown on me yet because of heat.  I would imagine the relocation of the rear head pipe has to make a difference so I can't see the bike being as hot or hotter then the '07s and '08s.  I don't have any transmission noise as stated in another thread, but the top end has gotten noticeably noisier.

[flyingwillie]

Same dilemna here.  I have the 06 103" SEUC that rides great (except for that damn seat).  BUT I usually get a new bike every couple of years.  First I thought it would be the SERG but I am now leaning toward another SEUC. In fact my dealer called me 2 hours ago and said he had one....just came in.....come see it.  Unfortunately I am  out of town and it was not my first (RED) color choice.  I don't want a bunch of problems (110) but want the new brakes and frame, etc etc.  I just assumed the problems would be fixed in the 09's. Decisions, decisions 
 

Well folks, I made the decision today.  New 09 Silver/Blue SEUC bought today so I hope the 110 fix is good.  Could not bring bike home today because I have to take a bunch of chrome off the 06 SEUC before I deliver it to the dealer.
So now both bikes on my avatar are gone.  New pic tomorrow!