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[elvislee]

Hummmmm....I wonder how this was decided?   

http://northmobile.mediacomtoday.com/community/news/story/index.php?source=National&id=D9392BIO0&pd=20080918

[FNGw/08SERK]

Hummmmm....I wonder how this decision was decided?   

http://northmobile.mediacomtoday.com/community/news/story/index.php?source=National&id=D9392BIO0&pd=20080918

Had to be the "bean counters" 

[elvislee]

Just watched a story of this on FOX News. Seems Secretary Of Defense Gates is the fellow who turned down the Medal Of Honor for Sgt. Peralta. Seems Sgt. Peralta was wounded in the head by either enemy or friendly fire. Sgt. Peralta went down and immediately grabbed a grenade off the floor thrown by an insurgent and pulled the grenade under him when it exploded. Sgt. Peralt's men with him all say he did this seemingly knowing what he was doing. There were some while investigating the event who claimed Sgt. Peralta grabbed the grenade as a reflex and did not know his intentions...All this according to the FOX News story...

[FNGw/08SERK]

Just watched a story of this on FOX News. Seems Secretary Of Defense Gates is the fellow who turned down the Medal Of Honor for Sgt. Peralta. Seems Sgt. Peralta was wounded in the head by either enemy or friendly fire. Sgt. Peralta went down and immediately grabbed a grenade off the floor thrown by an insurgent and pulled the grenade under him when it exploded. Sgt. Peralt's men with him all say he did this seemingly knowing what he was doing. There were some while investigating the event who claimed Sgt. Peralta grabbed the grenade as a reflex and did not know his intentions...All this according to the FOX News story...

just curious military or civilian?? can't remember does Gates have any time in uniform? 

[elvislee]

just curious military or civilian?? can't remember does Gates have any time in uniform? 

Did not say who did the investigation; but your right, would be interesting to know and don't know if Gates ever served or not.

[Twolanerider]

Did not say who did the investigation; but your right, would be interesting to know and don't know if Gates ever served or not.

Gates joined CIA in the mid sixties.  CIA employ didn't offer a draft exemption though.  Gate volunteered in to the Air Force and was commissioned a 2nd Lieutenant.  Did his required service as an intel liaison.  Has been in and out of CIA including DCI while also serving on the NSC and now as SECDEF.

[FNGw/08SERK]

Gates joined CIA in the mid sixties.  CIA employ didn't offer a draft exemption though.  Gate volunteered in to the Air Force and was commissioned a 2nd Lieutenant.  Did his required service as an intel liaison.  Has been in and out of CIA including DCI while also serving on the NSC and now as SECDEF.

Doesn't seem right to question the resume but I'm still scratching over the decision to nix the Medal of Honor. Story appears worthy 

[Twolanerider]

Doesn't seem right to question the resume but I'm still scratching over the decision to nix the Medal of Honor. Story appears worthy 

A few years ago I had a gig that involved gathering some histories on Medals of Honor awards and winners.  It had in its early use not always been an award solely about gallantry.  Sometimes political motivations were part of the award.  After the Civil War the change completed that removed that part of the legacy from award's status.

Strictly guessing here.  But the award in its modern sense has always been a known heroic gallantry.  Willingly and with understanding putting yourself in a position so far above and beyond the pale of duty that no other award can adequately recognize the effort or (as in most cases) sacrifice.

Somone already mortally wounded would, in those measures, be less likely to receive a Medal of Honor than he would (in this case) a Silver Star.  Someone not fully cognizant of their actions would stand in the same review.

It is not that such effort or sacrifice is not gallant or heraldic and heroic.  It's just that the CMH stands in a light bright enough that there is a distinction between giving a life to save others out of instinct or when that life is already likely lost as opposed to doing the same knowingly and when that life is full and vibrant. 

Whomever had to make that disinction; I'm glad I'm not him.  That is not a measure I would wish to make.

[FNGw/08SERK]

A few years ago I had a gig that involved gathering some histories on Medals of Honor awards and winners.  It had in its early use not always been an award solely about gallantry.  Sometimes political motivations were part of the award.  After the Civil War the change completed that removed that part of the legacy from award's status.

Strictly guessing here.  But the award in its modern sense has always been a known heroic gallantry.  Willingly and with understanding putting yourself in a position so far above and beyond the pale of duty that no other award can adequately recognize the effort or (as in most cases) sacrifice.

Somone already mortally wounded would, in those measures, be less likely to receive a Medal of Honor than he would (in this case) a Silver Star.  Someone not fully cognizant of their actions would stand in the same review.

It is not that such effort or sacrifice is not gallant or heraldic and heroic.  It's just that the CMH stands in a light bright enough that there is a distinction between giving a life to save others out of instinct or when that life is already likely lost as opposed to doing the same knowingly and when that life is full and vibrant. 

Whomever had to make that disinction; I'm glad I'm not him.  That is not a measure I would wish to make.

I'm certainly in agreement with that. Not envious nor do I have the "facts". God Bless Sgt. Peralta for ALL his sacrifice. May he rest in peace. 

[cuthbertss]

Timely discussion....

with almost every living recipient that can travel currently in Denver there has been a great deal of local coverage on the medal

and recent awards of it

pre 2003 the rate of MOHs awarded posthumously  was like 18%... since 2003 its 100%

without knowing the story of the awards board process ( which is a closely guarded secret) its hard to judge.

On the surface one certainly has to question what is different with this young mans brave sacrifice and that of MA2 Monsoor, USN  ; LT Murphy, USN; SFC Paul Smith, or PFC McGinnis , USA or CPL Dunham USMC  for performing very similar ultimate self sacrifices.


The Navy Cross is certainly nothing to take lightly.. but...    

intersting read with comments from folks a perspective on it i don't hold...  brave men with a pretty blue ribbon around their necks.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/sep/15/few-medals-in-current-conflicts/

I salute all of them for their bravery ; including Sgt Peralta, USMC

[elvislee]

Timely discussion....

with almost every living recipient that can travel currently in Denver there has been a great deal of local coverage on the medal

and recent awards of it

pre 2003 the rate of MOHs awarded posthumously  was like 18%... since 2003 its 100%

without knowing the story of the awards board process ( which is a closely guarded secret) its hard to judge.

On the surface one certainly has to question what is different with this young mans brave sacrifice and that of MA2 Monsoor, USN  ; LT Murphy, USN; SFC Paul Smith, or PFC McGinnis , USA or CPL Dunham USMC  for performing very similar ultimate self sacrifices.

The Navy Cross is certainly nothing to take lightly.. but...    

intersting read with comments from folks a perspective on it i don't hold...  brave men with a pretty blue ribbon around their necks.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/sep/15/few-medals-in-current-conflicts/

I salute all of them for their bravery ; including Sgt Peralta, USMC

On the surface; I agree 

http://www.pixcetera.com/news/medal-of-honor-recipients/35312

[Twolanerider]

pre 2003 the rate of MOHs awarded posthumously  was like 18%... since 2003 its 100%

Since WWI the percentage of posthumous awards has continually risen.  Posthumous awards were the majority from WWII.  Since the pullout of Hanoi in 1973 all Medal of Honor awards have been posthumous.  The only awards since '73 that weren't from action in Iraq or Afghanistan were of course the two awards from action in Mogadishu.

[Sean M Cary]

Sergeant Peralta didn't even have to go out that day...he volunteered to go with that squad that day.

He was 110% Marine.

Not sure of why he didn't get the Medal of Honor...unless there are others under review that may have raised the bar?  

Personally, I can't think of a much higher bar then pulling a grenade under you...

[FNGw/08SERK]

Sergeant Peralta didn't even have to go out that day...he volunteered to go with that squad that day.

He was 110% Marine.

Not sure of why he didn't get the Medal of Honor...unless there are others under review that may have raised the bar?  

Personally, I can't think of a much higher bar then pulling a grenade under you...

ROGER THAT!!

[Twolanerider]

Sergeant Peralta didn't even have to go out that day...he volunteered to go with that squad that day.

He was 110% Marine.

Not sure of why he didn't get the Medal of Honor...unless there are others under review that may have raised the bar?  

Personally, I can't think of a much higher bar then pulling a grenade under you...

Sean, you'll get no debate from me.  Can only speculate on the reasons why the review went as it did and consider the reasons why.  Suggesting such doesn't mean one agrees with them.  Just recognizes what they might be.

I am glad such a review wasn't mine to do.  I have a hard time not bowing before heroes and would award too easily I fear.  Knowing only the public facts I can't fathom the decision in this case.  But such decisions are well well above my pay grade.