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[skreminegul07]

Youze aren't really waiting for this schmuck from American Ironing to tell ya what's going on, are ya? We already know what's going on. We brought it to their attention. We've fixed em ourselves, and now after 2 bad years hopefully HD has too! Heat, bad gaskets, bad ACR's, and bad cylinders. The pistons are crap too BTW!

Hoist!

FAI

You crack me up.   

[gremlush]

One thing that he did point out is LESS cooling fin area. When I used to sell and build MERCH motors { 120-131"} they bragged about MORE cooling fins {thicker etc.}  BIGGER MOTOR ,RUNNING VERY LEAN,MORE HEAT ,ETC.   less cooling fins ?? HELLO !

[skreminegul07]

It's all the factors contributing to heat or lack of cooling plus reduced gasket sealing area.  Axtell jugs have less fins but probably more cooling area.  Axtell told me they did that to avoid design infringement on the MOCO.
Next time for me it's Axtell.

Still waiting for Donnie to explain how the liner grew if it's so mated to the aluminum jug.

[ultrafxr]

I find Donny's articles confusing and hard to follow.  I know, I know I'm an analytical type who takes thing is order - step 1, step 2, etc., and Donny seems to jump all around.  That would not be so bad if he came back at the end with a coherent summary (which he does not do adequately imo).  So I'm left scratching my head in that he says a lot of things that made sense (some over and over again) but I can't quite put all the pieces together to see the big picture. 

For example in the March issue on p. 44 he talks about TC cylinders using a spiny-lock iron liner that is die-cast into the cylinder.  It sure seems that is the case with the 110 cyls from my experience and from his article.  In fact on p. 46 he talks about how he could not separate the liner from the cylinder even with his 20-ton press.  Then near the end of the article on p. 52 he states 'Finally, the spiny-lock methodology found in the TC 88 cylinder needs reintroduction into the CVO 110 spiny-lock design.'  Huh? 

I don't get it.  Is it just me?

[hard10]

I find Donny's articles confusing and hard to follow.  I know, I know I'm an analytical type who takes thing is order - step 1, step 2, etc., and Donny seems to jump all around.  That would not be so bad if he came back at the end with a coherent summary (which he does not do adequately imo).  So I'm left scratching my head in that he says a lot of things that made sense (some over and over again) but I can't quite put all the pieces together to see the big picture. 

For example in the March issue on p. 44 he talks about TC cylinders using a spiny-lock iron liner that is die-cast into the cylinder.  It sure seems that is the case with the 110 cyls from my experience and from his article.  In fact on p. 46 he talks about how he could not separate the liner from the cylinder even with his 20-ton press.  Then near the end of the article on p. 52 he states 'Finally, the spiny-lock methodology found in the TC 88 cylinder needs reintroduction into the CVO 110 spiny-lock design.'  Huh? 

I don't get it.  Is it just me?

Jerry, I think that is an understatement! This gentleman is obviously a mechanic and not an English professor (or articulate author). For his defense, there is a caveat at the beginning of each article which states the the prose has been "adapted" to the "style" of the magazine and edited. Whomever did the "editing" should be fired. 

[ultrafxr]

Jerry, I think that is an understatement! This gentleman is obviously a mechanic and not an English professor (or articulate author). For his defense, there is a caveat at the beginning of each article which states the the prose has been "adapted" to the "style" of the magazine and edited. Whomever did the "editing" should be fired. 

Well, AJ, I was trying to be charitable.  I just hope he is a better mechanic than writer.  And you're right, of course, that editor needs some serious remedial training in his/her profession.

[JeffsHogPen]

I get the American Iron Mag. on a regular basis and have been keeping up with his three part on the 110 section. You all are correct....... and I am mechanically inclined. Donnie does ramble on. But to me he is advertising a build up to give it more HP.Boring the jugs, using the 10:5 pistons,  Cam up grade, and reworking the heads. He does not say anything that has not already been said on this forum or at any other quality shop. If Only Harley Davidson would step to the plate and fix their problem with the 110 Engine and not bandage the situation.

[ultrafxr]

One very interesting observation I got in the most recent article was the problem with the closeness of the oil return dowel to the liner.  He says on p. 52 'Replacing the four cylinder studs with five equidistant ones will ably assist in combating the exceptional rear cylinder heat, since the cylinder studs will be able to apply more even pressure to seal the head gasket.'  Don't think that's gonna happen, lol.  Just wondering how other mfgrs large displacement engines are in this regard. 

[RK2000]

Jerry and All. I picked up a couple Donny Peterson books on the Twin Cam. I in his book which is mostly what your seeing in AI, he talks about the difference between the 110" and 88" cylinders with the "spiney lock". They cut each cylinder in half and found that the "spiney lock" does not go as far up on the 110"  as it does on the 88". What I got out of their explanation was that the top portion of the sleeve was moving giving the uneven gasket surface. Have to think real hard on this.

[Steve_G]

From everything I've been reading, both on this site and from Donnie, the CVO 110" engines have design problems that can't be fixed.  No one should have to buy different engine parts just to get a reliable engine.  It's one thing if you want more performance, but as the top of the line bikes, you shouldn't have to spend a dime to have a bike that works flawlessly. 
OK, there's the EPA issue, but many people have experienced failures with simple stage one upgrades.  I'm sorry, but I don't believe new heads and gaskets fixes these design problems.

[BLM777]

From everything I've been reading, both on this site and from Donnie, the CVO 110" engines have design problems that can't be fixed.  No one should have to buy different engine parts just to get a reliable engine.  It's one thing if you want more performance, but as the top of the line bikes, you shouldn't have to spend a dime to have a bike that works flawlessly. 
OK, there's the EPA issue, but many people have experienced failures with simple stage one upgrades.  I'm sorry, but I don't believe new heads and gaskets fixes these design problems.

Your statement would be more accurate noting 07 and 08 motors.  None of the previous problems are apparent in the 09 motors.

As far as your observation of the early models not being able to be fixed .... I am personally aware of many bikes with thousands of trouble free miles following the recall service.  I wasn't aware that Donny Peterson made the statement that they couldn't be fixed, but I haven't read his articles.  Nothing personal, but his technical opinion in my view is about that of a freshman shop class.

 

[ultrafxr]

Your statement would be more accurate noting 07 and 08 motors.  None of the previous problems are apparent in the 09 motors.
As far as your observation of the early models not being able to be fixed .... I am personally aware of many bikes with thousands of trouble free miles following the recall service.  I wasn't aware that Donny Peterson made the statement that they couldn't be fixed, but I haven't read his articles.  Nothing personal, but his technical opinion in my view is about that of a freshman shop class.
 

I guess time will tell on the recall fixes and the '09 engines.  Do the '09s have changes other that what the recall service is accomplishing?  I don't know and cannot think of what they might have changed that they would not incorporate into the recall.  Like I said, time will tell.

I've no reason to defend Donny (and am not) and know nothing about his capabilities other then he seems to have a viable business and while his writing skills are lacking I think his technical ability is certainly a little higher than this.

[ultrafxr]

Jerry and All. I picked up a couple Donny Peterson books on the Twin Cam. I in his book which is mostly what your seeing in AI, he talks about the difference between the 110" and 88" cylinders with the "spiney lock". They cut each cylinder in half and found that the "spiney lock" does not go as far up on the 110"  as it does on the 88". What I got out of their explanation was that the top portion of the sleeve was moving giving the uneven gasket surface. Have to think real hard on this.

Where did you get it Ronnie?

[RK2000]

Jerry, If you go to his site at Heavydutycycles.com you will see a list of publications. The ones I got were "Donny's Unauthorized Technical Guide to Harley Davidson 1936-2008 Volume I: The Twin Cam" and "Donny's Unauthorized Technical Guide to Harley Davidson 1936 to Present Volume II: Performancing The Twin Cam" They were about $75 thru Amazon.com. They were recommended by a friend out of Chattanooga. Not quite as had to follow as his articles but it still takes my DA a couple reads to get it.

[hard10]

I will again reiterate that I have no formal training in mechanical engineering nor do I profess to know anything about Harley's engines. However, I would think that the average AIM reader is not a college graduate and would have a hard time comprehending what is trying to be explained in these "articles". I am 100% positive that the author has more knowledge and experience about the subject than I do in my pinkie but I think that his editing leaves a lot to be desired. If he is using the article as a means to sell more of his books, as is usually the case, I believe he is doing a poor job as it is not portraying him in a positive light. The books, of which I have not read (nor do I intend to), need to do a much better job of explaining the problems with the 110" in order to sell.

I guess time will tell on the recall fixes and the '09 engines.  Do the '09s have changes other that what the recall service is accomplishing?  I don't know and cannot think of what they might have changed that they would not incorporate into the recall.  Like I said, time will tell.

I've no reason to defend Donny (and am not) and know nothing about his capabilities other then he seems to have a viable business and while his writing skills are lacking I think his technical ability is certainly a little higher than this.

Why is it that the owners of 07 & 08 110"'s can't get a definitive answer as to whether or not any parts have changed in the 09's and why there are less failures of the 09's?