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[Bullwinkle]

>> the SE heads I have are supposed to have a 72CC combustion chamber, according to the documentation (I haven't CC'd them myself) .............  but I'm running stock pistons, or am planing to .... you running stock pistons ? <<

Production tolerances sometimes stack up against you, so if you want to be precise, I'd CC them.  I think they are pretty close right out of the box, from what I read.  Mine had the Branch combustion chamber polish job and perhaps some unshrouding around the valves, so the combustion chamber was a few CCs larger than stock.  Even Branch said as much.

The pistons are flat top with valve notches, but not stock, Wiseco.  Short Block Charlie had a good price on them, but he bored the cylinders with slightly more clearance than I wanted.  Doesn't seem to hurt anything, but a few K miles out, it may be loose.

The most important thing is a balanced combination.  It is true that we all want torque.  It is also true that the stock cam is good for torque and some of the aftermarket cams can be better.  But when you kick the compression ratio up to about 9.5 or more, then you need a little more cam so that detonation is not an issue.  Too short a cam is -bad- with a higher than stock compression ratio.  The W6 should perform very well with your setup.  The later intake close will be very nice with your c/r.

One more thing, the efficient combustion chamber design of the SE heads does not need as much timing as you might think.  It is possible that, if you use high octane gas, that even if the engine does not knock, you may be losing power with the timing too far advanced.  The engine is having to push the piston against the rising combustion pressure and it will cost some HP.  Each generation of Harley engines needs less timing than the one before.  A good dyno tune will nail this down for you.

Wood can probably tell you how much timing this setup likes.

You & I have almost the same setup except my cam is .560 lift and I'm using the SE air cleaner, stock HD lifters, a tuned CV and Daytona Twin Tec ignition.  Otherwise, right down to the pushrods, we're the same.  We're even using the same pipes right now but I have an E-pipe that if I can get time, I'll get it Jet-Hot coated and put it on.  Then maybe take it to a good dyno tuning shop in central Florida for finish tuning.  I doubt that can happen before late Spring, though.  If I can get time, I'll scan and email the results.  Maybe post them here, too.  If you get yours dynoed first, let me know how it turns out.

Bullwinkle

[Bullwinkle]

>> the SE heads I have are supposed to have a 72CC combustion chamber, according to the documentation (I haven't CC'd them myself) .............  but I'm running stock pistons, or am planing to .... you running stock pistons ? <<

Production tolerances sometimes stack up against you, so if you want to be precise, I'd CC them.  I think they are pretty close right out of the box, from what I read.  Mine had the Branch combustion chamber polish job and perhaps some unshrouding around the valves, so the combustion chamber was a few CCs larger than stock.  Even Branch said as much.

The pistons are flat top with valve notches, but not stock, Wiseco.  Short Block Charlie had a good price on them, but he bored the cylinders with slightly more clearance than I wanted.  Doesn't seem to hurt anything, but a few K miles out, it may be loose.

The most important thing is a balanced combination.  It is true that we all want torque.  It is also true that the stock cam is good for torque and some of the aftermarket cams can be better.  But when you kick the compression ratio up to about 9.5 or more, then you need a little more cam so that detonation is not an issue.  Too short a cam is -bad- with a higher than stock compression ratio.  The W6 should perform very well with your setup.  The later intake close will be very nice with your c/r.

One more thing, the efficient combustion chamber design of the SE heads does not need as much timing as you might think.  It is possible that, if you use high octane gas, that even if the engine does not knock, you may be losing power with the timing too far advanced.  The engine is having to push the piston against the rising combustion pressure and it will cost some HP.  Each generation of Harley engines needs less timing than the one before.  A good dyno tune will nail this down for you.

Wood can probably tell you how much timing this setup likes.

You & I have almost the same setup except my cam is .560 lift and I'm using the SE air cleaner, stock HD lifters, a tuned CV and Daytona Twin Tec ignition.  Otherwise, right down to the pushrods, we're the same.  We're even using the same pipes right now but I have an E-pipe that if I can get time, I'll get it Jet-Hot coated and put it on.  Then maybe take it to a good dyno tuning shop in central Florida for finish tuning.  I doubt that can happen before late Spring, though.  If I can get time, I'll scan and email the results.  Maybe post them here, too.  If you get yours dynoed first, let me know how it turns out.

Bullwinkle

[Hoist!]

>> the SE heads I have are supposed to have a 72CC combustion chamber, according to the documentation (I haven't CC'd them myself) .............  but I'm running stock pistons, or am planing to .... you running stock pistons ? <<

Production tolerances sometimes stack up against you, so if you want to be precise, I'd CC them.  I think they are pretty close right out of the box, from what I read.  Mine had the Branch combustion chamber polish job and perhaps some unshrouding around the valves, so the combustion chamber was a few CCs larger than stock.  Even Branch said as much.

The pistons are flat top with valve notches, but not stock, Wiseco.  Short Block Charlie had a good price on them, but he bored the cylinders with slightly more clearance than I wanted.  Doesn't seem to hurt anything, but a few K miles out, it may be loose.

The most important thing is a balanced combination.  It is true that we all want torque.  It is also true that the stock cam is good for torque and some of the aftermarket cams can be better.  But when you kick the compression ratio up to about 9.5 or more, then you need a little more cam so that detonation is not an issue.  Too short a cam is -bad- with a higher than stock compression ratio.  The W6 should perform very well with your setup.  The later intake close will be very nice with your c/r.

One more thing, the efficient combustion chamber design of the SE heads does not need as much timing as you might think.  It is possible that, if you use high octane gas, that even if the engine does not knock, you may be losing power with the timing too far advanced.  The engine is having to push the piston against the rising combustion pressure and it will cost some HP.  Each generation of Harley engines needs less timing than the one before.  A good dyno tune will nail this down for you.

Wood can probably tell you how much timing this setup likes.

You & I have almost the same setup except my cam is .560 lift and I'm using the SE air cleaner, stock HD lifters, a tuned CV and Daytona Twin Tec ignition.  Otherwise, right down to the pushrods, we're the same.  We're even using the same pipes right now but I have an E-pipe that if I can get time, I'll get it Jet-Hot coated and put it on.  Then maybe take it to a good dyno tuning shop in central Florida for finish tuning.  I doubt that can happen before late Spring, though.  If I can get time, I'll scan and email the results.  Maybe post them here, too.  If you get yours dynoed first, let me know how it turns out.

Bullwinkle

Loads of great stuff going on in this thread right now! Them FD guys who never come here don't know what thery're missing out on! But the statement you made above is prolly THE MOST IMPORTANT piece of information in here. It's all about the RIGHT combination. Just as Tim had stated, you need to know EXACTLY what you're trying to accomplish before selecting your components. Then those components should be proven (both theoretically and practically) to accomplish that goal. Everything else is just trial and error. And believe me, there's a lot smarter guys (engine designers) that know WAY more about getting that done than we'll ever know. We might understand what it takes, and know exactly what they're talking about, but we ain't engine designers. Talk to a good one and use a PROVEN combination that you know will accomplish your goal!

Good luck Mikey!

[Hoist!]

"..........those components should be proven (both theoretically and practically) to accomplish that goal. Everything else is just trial and error. And believe me, there's a lot smarter guys (engine designers) that know WAY more about getting that done than we'll ever know. We might understand what it takes, and know exactly what they're talking about, but we ain't engine designers. Talk to a good one and use a PROVEN combination that you know will accomplish your goal!......"

Howie.....

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU FOR THE MOST PART.......sometimes though I think we put too much emphasis on other's expertise....and we shift the responsiblity over to the mechanic that has all of this knowledge....when this isn't rocket science.....the KEY is...and I agree with you engine builders WILL TOTALLY have more knowledge than I do always...and will forever have.....BUT THE KEY IS....being able to accurately know yourself well enough to know what you are looking for....and not relying on another's idea for one's bike....in other words an engine builder does know more than I will ever know....but does his knowledge cross over to building the engine I desire to build.....this is the KEY!

Mikey know yourself and what you want to do.....and why you want to do it....

Remember a great engine build is one that is reliable.......both in performance and usability.

Regards,

Tim

Hmmm.............I kinda thought that's what my post was trying to say. Know what you want to accomplish, know what it takes to accomplish that, search for a PROVEN combination that you know will accomplish that, and go for it! But we're not designing these components. Your engine designers are. You need to know whether they're FOS, proven, and trustworthy. Hmmm........... My post DID say that Tim!

Hoist!

[Black Diamond]

We might understand what it takes, and know exactly what they're talking about, but we ain't engine designers. Talk to a good one and use a PROVEN combination that you know will accomplish your goal!......"[/color][/i][/b]

Howie.....

b]BUT THE KEY IS....being able to accurately know yourself well enough to know what you are looking for....and not relying on another's idea for one's bike....in other words an engine builder does know more than I will ever know....but does his knowledge cross over to building the engine I desire to build.....this is the KEY![/b]

Remember a great engine build is one that is reliable.......both in performance and usability.

Regards,

Tim

While Howie's advice above is generally dead on, I have to agree with you Tim. You have to know what you want your build to do. Explain this carefully to the builder and get details on what he recommends. Research the builder and his recommendations. Then make your decision.

Sometimes you can take a proven combination and discover it doesn't work in your case.

Mikey, been following your build with great interest. One day I may do something with the 84'.

JW

[Hoist!]

While Howie's advice above is generally dead on, I have to agree with you Tim. You have to know what you want your build to do. Explain this carefully to the builder and get details on what he recommends. Research the builder and his recommendations. Then make your decision.

Sometimes you can take a proven combination and discover it doesn't work in your case.

Mikey, been following your build with great interest. One day I may do something with the 84'.

JW

Why am I not clear on this? I'm agreeing with you guys. You highlighted only part of my sentence above. The rest of it puts it into the context you guys are speaking of. I guess I'm just not a good communicator like youze all are! I guess I'll stop posting now! .......................................................................NOT!!!

Hoist!

[Black Diamond]

Why am I not clear on this? I'm agreeing with you guys. You highlighted only part of my sentence above. The rest of it puts it into the context you guys are speaking of. I guess I'm just not a good communicator like youze all are! I guess I'll stop posting now! .......................................................................NOT!!!

Hoist!

I was agreeing with you also! My point is even a proven package may not work. I am basing this on my own experience, as you know. Not disagreeing at all.

[Hoist!]

I was agreeing with you also! My point is even a proven package may not work. I am basing this on my own experience, as you know. Not disagreeing at all.

C'mon Jeff, you know I just gotta bust em, don'tcha now!

It's all good man. We're all tellin the same story here. I hope everyone gets it, cause this is true for ANY build with ANY engine!!!

Hoist!

[Black Diamond]

Ain't it the truth!

[RedFXR2]

....because is there anything far worse than afterwards wishing one would have done something else......

Just to temper this statement, I would point out that ultimately, unless Mikey or anybody wants to make a long term expensive hobby of trying many different Evo engine builds with many different components in a quest for the ultimate FXR4Mikey machine, at some point he's going to have to settle on what he thinks is the best setup--and in all likelihood, he won't get to test-ride it first.

One of the things I pondered as I thought about heads (SE or S&S were my choices), and cams (a bunch of good candidates...too many) was that it was too bad that I couldn't somehow test-ride the motor built with all possible combinations for about a month each.  Well, I suppose it's possible but a bit ridiculous in terms of time and cost.  So at some point i had to settle on a combination, put it all together and see if turned out like I hoped/believed.  In my case and my motor, I was very happy and still am.

IMO, from what I've read, Mikey has acquired a good set of components and will get a motor that will transform his bike into a whole new riding experience.  Barring some part failure disaster, I predict he'll be happy with the results for a long time and like me, won't lose any sleep over "what if....." scenarios involving what he didn't install or could have installed.

Bottom line--do your homework, consider the intended purpose of the resultant motor, and then go ahead and build it.  Unless you've gotten way off track somewhere, or lost focus somehow, chances are good you'll be fine. 

[RedFXR2]

Ok guys can't we agree that it's ok not to disagree......

Well, on SOME parts of this board.........

[Black Diamond]

Ok guys can't we agree that it's ok not to disagree......

lol

Tim

LOL

[Hoist!]

Ok guys can't we agree that it's ok not to disagree......

lol

Tim

HeHe!!! NO!!!

Hoist!

[fxr4mikey]

WOW, I'm in SHOCK  !!!   LOL   

I MIGHT, MAYBE, go back and reply to many of the past couple of pages of post.  But I think there is an easier way.
 
Two of the many recent posts seem to stand out in my mind about what yall are saying to me.  And believe me, I've been pondering this build for a long time.
I started acquiring parts more than 7 months ago..... knowing that some of the parts wouldn't be directly related to the TQ/HP generated.

So I'm gonna go back and post up a reply to two of these recent posts so that perhaps I can provide you with how I have reflected for months, on the points that yall have put forth here.

And let me say, THANK YOU !!  To ALL of you, for your TIME, your EFFORT, your THOUGHTS, your INPUT, your TIPS, and OPINIONS

THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH !!!!

[Hoist!]

WOW, I'm in SHOCK  !!!   LOL   

I MIGHT, MAYBE, go back and reply to many of the past couple of pages of post.  But I think there is an easier way.
 
Two of the many recent posts seem to stand out in my mind about what yall are saying to me.  And believe me, I've been pondering this build for a long time.
I started acquiring parts more than 7 months ago..... knowing that some of the parts wouldn't be directly related to the TQ/HP generated.

So I'm gonna go back and post up a reply to two of these recent posts so that perhaps I can provide you with how I have reflected for months, on the points that yall have put forth here.

And let me say, THANK YOU !!  To ALL of you, for your TIME, your EFFORT, your THOUGHTS, your INPUT, your TIPS, and OPINIONS

THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH !!!!

Don't let Tim inTIMidate ya with those novel length posts there Mikey!
J/K Tim!

But from the list in your signature, you should be happy with that. That is a proven on the street good combo! Like Tim said, shoot for the CR he suggested.

Hoist!