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[Fired00d]

Brian-
Why didn't I read this before I sold my cam tools on Ebay?   
In another 5,000 miles, I'll have 30K on the cams, gears, and inner bearings.

The person that bought them didn't go by "hogasm" did they?? Maybe that's why he didn't tell you.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[hogasm]

The person that bought them didn't go by "hogasm" did they?? Maybe that's why he didn't tell you.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

No I did not purchase them

[Fired00d]

No I did not purchase them

I didn't think you really did I was just messing w/Bob because he was saying you didn't tell him in time.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Boatman]

I didn't think you really did I was just messing w/Bob because he was saying you didn't tell him in time.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

I keep hearing their 100,000 mile motors.  Brian burst my bubble.   

[SBB]

I keep hearing their 100,000 mile motors.  Brian burst my bubble.   

Bob

A friend of mine with an 03 R/K has 131000 miles on his motor.
He changed the tensioners every 40K miles.

Another friend has two 03 Ultra's, his with 103K and his wifes with 81K.
And he just took delivery of two 09 SEUC's.

If you take care of them and don't abuse them they will live a long time.

SBB

[jug-head]

YES ,you are right about the chain , BUT, splain to me why some bikes get 60,000 miles and some get 10,000 miles , same chain, YES ? Quality of the shoes maybe ?

When a chain is manufactured the links are stamped out with a punch press. When tooling on the press gets worn, the chain links will have a sharp, tapered edge on them. Grad a handful of cheap washers and you can see this variation in quality. This is what makes the chain eat the tensioner. If you use a belt sander and then a polishing wheel on the cam chain, the tensioner will last much longer.

The Idea of the spring loaded tensioner was poorly thought out by the Moco. No one in their right mind would use this design. Every other cam chain drive, uses a tensioner that holds a very light pressure on the chain and dosn't let the tensioner to back up. That way you have minimum wear on the tensioner shoe and the cam timing doesn't vary. A  spring loaded tensioner grinds the shoe against the chain and can be pushed back causing the timing to vary. If the spring is stong enough to stop the tensioner from backing up, its strong enough to wear out the shoe real fast, especialy angainst a rough chain. The Moco addressed this problem on the later model twin cams with hydrolic tensioners and a different style of chain.

IMHO the best set-up would be a set of cams with gear drives between them and a chain drive from the crank. The tensioner should be either hydraulic or preferably manual. This way you will have less gear drive noise. Only one  tensioner that is easy to replace and lasts much longer, accurate cam timing and the run-out on the crank wouldn't cause a cam drive problem.

[hogasm]

Azzholes and opinions......everyone has one.....so being an....er having an opinion

Here is my take....

there were 2 manufactures of the shoes:
     one good
     one not so good
The shoes are injection molded and in that process air is injected into the mix. Too much air makes the shoe too porous, thus the shoe wears our faster than one not as porous.

The chain is polished while the motor is running from the contact with the shoe. This wearing is minute. A chain would never be worn out from contact with the shoes, during the lifetime of the motor...ie...100,000 miles.

The next part in the equation is how the shoe is held in contact with the chain. There are 2 ways from the MOCO
     1-spring
     2-hydraulic

1- Spring holds a steady tension on the chain. It will have both positive and negative movement with the chain. With the spring, not all springs are created equal and one that is tighter than the other will put more pressure on the chain than a lighter spring.

2- Hydraulic tensioners keep positive tension on the chain at all times. If there is any negative movement with the chain, the hydraulic tensioner will take up the slack and not remove the new tension that it has created. With this 2 things will happen.
     1- the shoe will wear out prematurely
     2- the chain will stretch from too much pressure on it. This is why companies like Baker recommend use of the old spring tensioner in the primary with their DD-6 transmission.

Now will the new hydraulic tensioner last longer than the spring types.....it is all relevant with the composition of the material the shoe is made with.

Why didn't the MOCO make a new shoe for the old spring tensioner......because most of us are gullible enough to spend a grand on the new set-up instead of installing new shoes that is up- selling. It is what the MOCO instills in their stores. That may be wrong....they preach it!

The other option....NOT HARLEY.... is gear drives:
    Gear drives are only as good as who installed them, and because not all parts are created equal 3 major things need to be checked
          Check crank run out.....crank needs to be under 15 thousands for proper gear and oil pump wear
          Gear lash.....different diameter gears are produced to keep lash correct
          Gear alignment.....shims kits are available to make sure that the gears are aligned properly.
Many installers of gear drives don't take the time to check these things. I hate to say it, but there are a ton of parts changers out there.
     Parts do wear and that is why even gear drives should be checked regularly, just like shoes.

[Trapperdog]

1- Spring holds a steady tension on the chain. It will have both positive and negative movement with the chain. With the spring, not all springs are created equal and one that is tighter than the other will put more pressure on the chain than a lighter spring.

As I understand it, with spring tensioners,  80% of pad wear occurs during the first 20% of use due to the fact that the spring tension is very high when new and the chain has not stretched. As the chain stretches and the spring opens, there is less pressure on the pad thereby reducing wear. Those with spring tensioners could see an abnormal amount of wear the first XX miles, but very little continuing wear the the following XX miles. Just my understanding and 2 cents.

[Razar]

2003 RK 88.  Checked mine at 25k miles.  About half worn, decided to replace anyway as well as cam  and bearing upgrade.  Indy said good call, as one cam had a score on the hard surface.  Just a time bomb ticking.  Will check tensioners again around 50k.  Used M1 and redline oil since new and never run to limiter.
Razar

[FUZZNUTS]

My new hydraulic tensioners just came in to the dealer. Along with the new cam, bearings and lifters.  I'll be dropping the bike off today. I'll post the results  of the work after I get it back...............Fuzz

[Talon]

As I understand it, with spring tensioners,  80% of pad wear occurs during the first 20% of use due to the fact that the spring tension is very high when new and the chain has not stretched. As the chain stretches and the spring opens, there is less pressure on the pad thereby reducing wear. Those with spring tensioners could see an abnormal amount of wear the first XX miles, but very little continuing wear the the following XX miles. Just my understanding and 2 cents.

I don't know, but if that's the case, then it also allows for possible cam timing changes if there is any play under WOT. Still not a good scenario. As for the run out being excessive, this can also lead to problems with the oil pump and other issues, so to me the use of chains is a Band-Aid.

[spydglide]

My new hydraulic tensioners just came in to the dealer. Along with the new cam, bearings and lifters.  I'll be dropping the bike off today. I'll post the results  of the work after I get it back...............Fuzz

Hey Fuzz......are you going back with the stock cams & bearings?  spyder

[FUZZNUTS]

As for the cam the H.D. parts guy said that I have a 253 cam stock. He told me with out going to high comp pistons or heads, I was limited to a 211. As the conversation went he told me that there was'nt that much of difference between the two cams, but the sound of the cam will be a little more pronounced. As for the bearings I did not stipulate a preference. Should I have ?  Will it make a reliability issue between stock and non stock bearing ?      

[spydglide]

As for the cam the H.D. parts guy said that I have a 253 cam stock. He told me with out going to high comp pistons or heads, I was limited to a 211. As the conversation went he told me that there was'nt that much of difference between the two cams, but the sound of the cam will be a little more pronounced. As for the bearings I did not stipulate a preference. Should I have ?  Will it make a reliability issue between stock and non stock bearing ?      

Well, some believe the Torrington is a better bearing to replace the stock one HD supplies.  So, you are going to go back with stock parts (cams/lifters/etc.)?   Probably easier that way if the HD shop is doing the work......they would probably have to order the Torrington bearings from Drag or someone.   spyder

[Twolanerider]

Well, some believe the Torrington is a better bearing to replace the stock one HD supplies.  So, you are going to go back with stock parts (cams/lifters/etc.)?   Probably easier that way if the HD shop is doing the work......they would probably have to order the Torrington bearings from Drag or someone.   spyder

If there's an IBT store locally (or any other bearing shop) you can probably walk in pick up the bearings.  Local store here keeps them.  Last time I needed some a pair was about ten bucks.