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[iski]

While in Daytona  noticed the excellent shifting of many of the riders around this shop.  Appears there may be more to this than just innuendo, speculation, and unfounded theorems. In fact, did not see any bikes leaking oil while the riders were shifting, so in effect the idea is already partially proven, according to current recognizable scientific methodologies which include observation while beer drinking. 

Findings so far:  while shifting, no bikes appeared o be leaking oil, from my observation point which averaged 10 feet to 200 yards away.  No ACR failures were noted while riders were shifting, either. Also possible the unemployment rate in this area is lower than average apparently due to the snack value of past employees.

[09S/E roadglide]

Daytona HD sales people............under paid and delicious ( the other,other white meat ) 

[grc]

................................................................................
Anyway, since the fellow never took any of what he said back, is the "not had any oil leak problems" or ACR failures on 07 & 08 110 SE bikes sold at Destination Daytona HD a miracle, or something else?

Mike, you have finally hit upon the reason why people pay the jacked-up prices common in that dealership.  The extra cash is obviously the difference between a top quality Harley and a regular ol' POS Harley.

Jerry

[iski]

Mike, you have finally hit upon the reason why people pay the jacked-up prices common in that dealership.  The extra cash is obviously the difference between a top quality Harley and a regular ol' POS Harley.

Jerry

Jerry, It is clear to me now.  CVOs at only $10k over @ DD HD when HD dealerships 2-3 hours away or less sell for MSRP (and deal).  I suspect the excellent course they teach in 6th gear shifting & shift  patterns is worth much more than $10k & that explains why so many satisfied customers are happy to pay it.  Wonder if the sales dept. there has ever seen the service dept. when it is operational? 

Mike

[iski]

Daytona HD sales people............under paid and delicious ( the other,other white meat ) 

 

I bet their is no meat discrimination there - prolly likes Asian as well as Hispanic and African, and Indian & .........

 

[TN]

Please read before answering the poll question.

Stopped recently at Destination Daytona HD.  For those who might not know, this is a HUGE HD dealer.  Was discussing new 09 CVOs with a sales person who has been a HD salesman for over 10 years.  They had an 07 Smurf for $32k or so with 9,000 miles, BTW. In the course of the conversation I said that the 09 110's seemed to be holding up well when compared to the oil leak issues, ACR failures, and crank runout problems on some of the 07 & 08 110s.  He said "We have not had any oil leak problems on the 110s sold here."  I then asked "Why?"  He said: "We tell our customers how to shift gears & when to shift especially using 6th gear."  Thought to myself......Sakes to Betsy, it was all a shift pattern problem caused by poor shifting!!!??!  Amazing!!!!  Next I said "How can shifting gears incorrectly cause an ACR failure."  He said.............crickets.  Then "We have not had any of those fail on the bikes we sold."

At that point the heavens did not open & trumpets did not sound.  Instead I said "I own an 07 SE Ultra.  We -all 07 owners & some 08 110 owners - got a letter from HD on a product recall, I mean enhancement, and it included replacement O Rings, ACRs, redesigned valve guides/heads, & head gaskets.  Also, I had cylinder slip which caused both jugs to leak.  It was a warranty repair at no cost - widely known." 

Then he offerred to show me the paint work of a local bike painter - which was very nicely done.  I feel very, very sorry for those that listen to sales talk without having the knowledge of the product they are purchasing.

Anyway, since the fellow never took any of what he said back, is the "not had any oil leak problems" or ACR failures on 07 & 08 110 SE bikes sold at Destination Daytona HD a miracle, or something else?

just when i thought i've heard it all.

and i thought i was the dumb ol country boy.




 

TN

[Zekester]

That is one hellava sales tactic. I'm gonna try it with real estate...  Yeah, none of the people I've sold houses to has seen their value drop.  Heck - Bernie Madoff used the same tactic and he's a bazzillionaire. Chit, the Moco should just send ALL their cvo's to DD harley and shazam! no more oil leaks! no more problems at all! Problem solved.

Zeke

[iski]

As of today, Feb. 16, "Bull pie" is the leading poll answer.  Miracle is a distant second. 

[Keats]

While in Daytona  noticed the excellent shifting of many of the riders around this shop.  Appears there may be more to this than just innuendo, speculation, and unfounded theorems. In fact, did not see any bikes leaking oil while the riders were shifting, so in effect the idea is already partially proven, according to current recognizable scientific methodologies which include observation while beer drinking. 

Findings so far:  while shifting, no bikes appeared o be leaking oil, from my observation point which averaged 10 feet to 200 yards away.  No ACR failures were noted while riders were shifting, either. Also possible the unemployment rate in this area is lower than average apparently due to the snack value of past employees.

The MOCO could have saved a lot of money instead of the 905, 906 enhancement program they could have sent out training videos "shifting for Dummies" of how to shift your bike.

[Unbalanced]

Floor Tag on SE Road Glide at Destination Daytona

[09S/E roadglide]

  HOLLY TAWACKI THATS INSANE !   i GUESS YOU HAVE TO CHARGE THAT WHEN YOU HAVE TO FEED THE HUMAN KOOL-ADE MAN.


 iD HATE TO BE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT WALL !!

[veech]

There are certainly many snake oil dealers out there praying on peoples emotions and wallets.  However, there is also something to be said for how people ride their bikes and how they hold up.  More often than not the ones screaming the loudest about the crappy quality of their new bikes are beating on them the most.  Of course there are legitimate quality issues, as with any manufactured product, but let me share a true story:

A buddy of mine had a dealership for a while and one of his product lines were Big Dog motorcycles.  Customers would buy these very expensive bikes and then after a short time come in screaming about how they were breaking down, leaking, etc.  They spent a gazillion dollars and expected top quality and these bikes were crap!!!

My buddy would ask about their riding habits, and of course every one of them babied their bikes, followed proper starting procedures, and generally took the utmost care of these machines.  My buddy would then tell them, truthfully, "That's great Mr. Customer.  You'll be happy to know that Big Dog installed a tracking mechanism in their ignition systems and once we download the history we will be able to show that the product is defective and get it all replaced under warranty."  You should have seen their faces turn white. 

Then, when he found out that these guys red-lined their bikes 67 times during their first 500 mile break-in period, he would say "This voids the warranty.  However, I spoke to Big Dog and they said they will honor it this time but if you pull that again you are on your own."  They would typically respond, "That's OK, I hate that ignition system anyway and am gonna replace it!"  He would then have to tell them if they did they completely voided the warranty.

My point is, just because someone spends $30K+ on a bike doesn't mean the bike should be perfect no matter what they do to it.  If people treat their bikes well, the bikes will generally treat them well in return.  If they want the ego boost/adrenalin rush of beating on their bikes, fine.  Just don't expect someone else to pay for it.

Of course, we don't need to worry about any of that now because the Obama Pork Bailout Plan will pay for everything.  Mister Dealer:  I'll take three of those Harleys there...just put them on my Stimulus Package account!

[timo482]

in 1979 when i bought my first new bike, a red sportster 

i had a problem with the single cable throttle they used then - the damn thing would stick on cold days [you know the drill - go riding when its 25 and it sticks and nearly puts you under a truck so they put the bike inside and let it warm up for two hours and say that you cant ride cause its fine and its your fault and we wont fix it].....

about june i was in getting some parts [they used lots of parts then]  i saw a nice right side shift rigid frame sportster in the shop that i had seen go out in totally rebuilt condition that spring sitting in the shop leaking oil, cracked case, thrown rod - trashed.

the guy brought it in as a warranty claim - that day was when i understood why the dealers would assume the worst and try to not cover anything - id personally seen the guy doing hole shots with it with 25 miles on a brand new engine.

i got the salesman in the corner and told him that while some folks really did trash there bikes on purpose - some dont & treating every customer like they are trashing there bike on purpose will drive customers away.

i had another problem that summer with a warranty item with about 11k on the bike [march to july 11k  ] they refused to warranty said i was trashing my bike - i didnt - got 60 k out of the original build, got 40k out of the second before i sold the bike and got a 77 electra glide that i rode about 130k.

i have NEVER been back to that dealer since & never will.

ames iowa, ames high school '78

to

[Twolanerider]

There are certainly many snake oil dealers out there praying on peoples emotions and wallets.  However, there is also something to be said for how people ride their bikes and how they hold up.  More often than not the ones screaming the loudest about the crappy quality of their new bikes are beating on them the most.  Of course there are legitimate quality issues, as with any manufactured product, but let me share a true story:

A buddy of mine had a dealership for a while and one of his product lines were Big Dog motorcycles.  Customers would buy these very expensive bikes and then after a short time come in screaming about how they were breaking down, leaking, etc.  They spent a gazillion dollars and expected top quality and these bikes were crap!!!

My buddy would ask about their riding habits, and of course every one of them babied their bikes, followed proper starting procedures, and generally took the utmost care of these machines.  My buddy would then tell them, truthfully, "That's great Mr. Customer.  You'll be happy to know that Big Dog installed a tracking mechanism in their ignition systems and once we download the history we will be able to show that the product is defective and get it all replaced under warranty."  You should have seen their faces turn white. 

Then, when he found out that these guys red-lined their bikes 67 times during their first 500 mile break-in period, he would say "This voids the warranty.  However, I spoke to Big Dog and they said they will honor it this time but if you pull that again you are on your own."  They would typically respond, "That's OK, I hate that ignition system anyway and am gonna replace it!"  He would then have to tell them if they did they completely voided the warranty.

My point is, just because someone spends $30K+ on a bike doesn't mean the bike should be perfect no matter what they do to it.  If people treat their bikes well, the bikes will generally treat them well in return.  If they want the ego boost/adrenalin rush of beating on their bikes, fine.  Just don't expect someone else to pay for it.

Of course, we don't need to worry about any of that now because the Obama Pork Bailout Plan will pay for everything.  Mister Dealer:  I'll take three of those Harleys there...just put them on my Stimulus Package account!

The buddy is a jackass (sorry).  Threatening a customer with lack of warranty for riding a bike within the parameters designed in to that product is arrogant, presumptuous and more than a little annoying.  If Big Dog didn't like where they put the redline than make the redline lower.  But don't use any manufacturer prescribed limit as an excuse to threaten warranty or modify use of one's property.

[veech]

My point was that there are two sides to every story, and both can be legitimate.  If you buy a street bike and then use it at the pro drag races, don't expect a consumer warranty to cover it.  Someone may own it and can do what they want with it, but that doesn't mean it is within the manufacturers prescribed parameters of operation and they should cover all repairs just because some egomaniac thinks it should be so.  There is a reason why racing motors are typically rebuilt after EVERY RACE.   

I'm not defending dealers, I've certainly met plenty of shiesters.  I've also met plenty of narcissistic people trying to take advantage of anyone they can.  We live in a f***d up world.  This doesn't excuse poor customer service however-I completely agree with timo482 and follow a similar approach with respect to where I take my business.  It ultimately all boils down to a matter of integrity.