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[RickC]

Picked up my 09 SERG on 2/12. Got in a little over 400 miles before taking it back to the dealership for CB Radio and Intercom install on Friday last. Yesterday, my father-in-law drove me down to pick up the SERG. We took the trailer to bring her back 'cause I've been on some pain meds. The mechanic rode the bike out and onto the trailer. We tied her down, put the alarm in transport mode and drove home.

When we get home, I backed the bike off the trailer and tried to start it. I tried several times and no joy. Everything looked right. Headlights on, dash lights on, radio clock on. When I turned the run switch on, the fuel pump starts up and the light on the speedo comes on until the fuel pressure is right. I squeeze the clutch and hit the start button and...

Nothing. Not a click. Not a pop. Not a whir. Just nothing...

I called a buddy who's a Harley mechanic and asked if there was anything special to do to get it out of transport mode. He couldn't remember off the top fo his head.

So, I called up the hill and had my girlfriend bring MOM (Motorcycle Owner's Manual) down to me. A quick check with MOM confirms there is nothing special to do. Just start per normal operating procedures.

So, I tried again... three or four more times.

Then someone -- don't remember if it was Papa or baby girl -- says, "Does it have to be in neutral to start?"

I said something like, "No. A Harley doesn't have to be in neutral to start. None of my Harleys have had to be in neutral to start..."

But...

Guess what???

I shift to neutral, squeeze the clutch, hit START and "Voila!" Smooth as silk.

So, I shut her down and tried again with the tranny shifted into first gear. No love.

Back to neutral... she starts right up...

SO, here's my question:

Did Harley change something in the ECM that requires the bikes to be in neutral when starting? Is this an update to the 09 ECM's that my dealer might have loaded while they were installing the CB/Intercom?

I'm calling the dealer later this morning to find out of they did anything to the ECM. I would almost swear that this bike has started in gear before it went to the shop last week.

[donald p]

starting in neutral is new for 09, I like it.

[RickC]

starting in neutral is new for 09, I like it.

But... my 09 SERG didn't have to be in neutral to start before yesterday... at least, not that I remember.

It's always been my habit to park the bike in gear so it doesn't roll. When I get on, I turn the switch to IGNITION, turn the RUN/STOP switch to RUN, squeeze the clutch and hit START -- all with the bike still in gear!

Even though Ive only got 410 miles on her, I've made several trips back and forth to work as well as a few other short rides. I can't believe that I've always started her in neutral until yesterday. It just seemed so weird to me to have to shift to neutral to start a Harley.

And this isn't a question of whether I like it or not. It's a question of whether something changed on my bike or not. I.e., did the dealer flash my ECM without telling me? If so, what else changed?

BTW, I know they had to flash the radio for the new CB and Intercom. The ECM, though... that's a different story.

Well, I'll call the dealer in a bit and find out if anything changed. If not, I guess we'll chalk this up to a "man-scan" as my girls call it. That's what they call it any time I don't pay attention to something very, very closely... especially when I'm looking for something and don't see it right in front of my face... but that never happens...

[Carlos Silva]

man, I'm beat...you write a lot

mine starts in gear - clutch in... won't start w/clutch out...since day 1...

[FR8TRN]

Did you have the jiffy stand down??  With jiffy stand up, in gear and clutch in it should start, if not the dealer screwed something up.

[hd-dude]

man, I'm beat...you write a lot

mine starts in gear - clutch in... won't start w/clutch out...since day 1...

This was a change made in 07, there is a switch in the clutch side housing that keeps the bike from starting while in gear unless the clutch is in.

[RickC]

This was a change made in 07, there is a switch in the clutch side housing that keeps the bike from starting while in gear unless the clutch is in.

Bingo!

Just talked to the dealership. Part of the CB Radio install involves... disassembling and reassembling the left-side hand control unit. This is where the clutch safety switch lives.

Apparently, the switch was either damaged or not re-installed correctly when they put the left-side control back together.

Well, chit! It's the little things that aggavate me...

Thanks everyone!

[igofar]

Apparently, the switch was either damaged or not re-installed correctly when they put the left-side control back together.

Surprise, surprise, surprise.....(Could you tell that was sarcasm?)

Always go back to the last thing worked on and in most cases, that is where your problem will be found.

Brad

[RickC]

Always go back to the last thing worked on and in most cases, that is where your problem will be found.

Agreed!

[GregKhougaz]

man, I'm beat...you write a lot

mine starts in gear - clutch in... won't start w/clutch out...since day 1...

Ditto.  But I love the "MOM" description.  Amazing what you can learn by reading it! I've started in gear a few times.  Don't think I've tried to start without pulling in clutch.  Always was told it's a good idea to pull in even if in neutral when starting.  Anyone do this? 

[RickC]

Ditto.  But I love the "MOM" description.  Amazing what you can learn by reading it! I've started in gear a few times.  Don't think I've tried to start without pulling in clutch.  Always was told it's a good idea to pull in even if in neutral when starting.  Anyone do this? 

I always squeeze the clutch when starting... whether in gear... or in neutral... doesn't matter to me.

FWIW, buddy who is a Harley mechanic says starting the bike while in gear is very hard on the starter motor even with the clutch squeezed. He suggested *always* starting the bike in neutral...

[1abastarsmda]

When I owned a Yamaha VStar, there was no other fuel indicator other than watching your trip odometer.  I can't tell you how many times I ran out of gas and had to switch to reserve.  The problem was that you would get about 2 to 3 seconds notice before the engine would stall.  If you are in motion in traffic flow, there was no choice but to very quickly reach down and switch to reserve, give it a few seconds for fuel to reach the carbs, and start it back up while still rolling.  It was bad enough having it happen, but if I would have needed to find neutral to start it back up, I'd surely be roadkill a long time ago.  Yeah, I know...after one time, I should have paid very close attention so I didn't have this happen.

Anyway, I rebuilt the carbs on that bike, and went as far as making modifications to the carburetors themselves (such as drilling holes to larger diameters, etc...don't ask), but after getting everything to go back together what seemed like perfectly, it started right up but I could not get the bike to stay running once I put it in gear. I tried over and over.  It started perfectly and no matter how much I revved the bike, as soon as I put it in gear it stalled immediately.  I was in a total panic.  I ran up to my computer and typed a message into the VStar forum.  I was lucky that someone answered me immediately.  All they had to do was respond with "Did you put the kickstand up?"  Wow, did I feel like an idiot.  I felt better when I realized that after everything I did, not only did the bike still run, but a HUGE change in performance by letting some more fuel flow through the carbs.

[Gettinold]

Good thing you had the cb instaled or you may of had a problem down the road with that switch. 

[ThomasK]

In Germany the side stand must be in too. Otherwise you cant start the engine.
Another German rule

[LarryB]

That switch was revised from 08-09. look up the part Number and you'll see. I works just opposite in the 09's than it did on the 08's. that switch is very ez to break while work on the left side controls. It will flash a code saying that a wire is crimped. I had to replace mine