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[Twolanerider]

This may speak to age, laziness, or simply the desire for a different kind of satisfaction coming from a good day's ride.  But I'd pay more to get less (if improvement was to be had either way) if that's what it took to keep the cruise control.  

Another thought that really doesn't relate to the cost even though it might seem to, is that if I'm doing extensive engine mods I'm not terribly interested whether the larger throttle body comes with injectors or not.  After all, I'm going to want to make my own choices there anyway relative to the requirements of what's been done.

HD may supply something that is supposed to be a "one-size-fits-all performance upgrade."  But combining those words has to supply something less than the highest common denominator of combinations to achieve what you might achieve.

[DCFIREMANN]

I am just comparing apples to apples, so if these injectors are so inexpensive why doesn't zippers supple them? Harley does, your not doing a very good job of justifying the extra $200 expense. Way over priced!!! I am gonna try and get a price on a stripped 46mm TB (stripped meaning no injectors like zipperheads).

O'Fender you really don't know do you?? ZIPPERHEADS??  One thing that Twolane brought up was you would want a choice in injector size. The discription Harley has in the SE catalog talks about injector size being larger. On your stock 103 that is the last thing you would want! They also talk about heads (something we all know you know nothing about) and the heads they are talking about are not the stock 103 heads. Without a head that can deliver the goods the oversize injectors are worthless. Yes they are inexpensive but it is just like carb jets you can have a whole toolbox full, but unless you have the right ones they are of no good to you!!!!! If you think the HD TB's are so good, then invest in one and play with it and then post your dyno sheet. If it works that would be great. It might be something that some others on here might want to try. One thing I can tell you is that my 04 SEEG with a Zippers 50mm throttle body and a Zippers THUNDER MAX ECM and a THUNDERHEADER spun the dyno (in very bad air) by a very competent dyno man (that a lot of us know) that has no interest in ZIPPERS what so ever at 103.3 HP and 104.5 TQ. I can tell you also that the same bike turned an even higher number on a LAND and SEA DYNO just the other day. Anyone that knows DYNO's will tell you that you will always get a lower number on a Land and Sea setup!

Now O'FENDER ole buddy you may think that the ZIPPERHEADS are tooooo expensive. The fact is a lot of work went into the little package that I installed. They put more time into R&D than you could ever imangine. I spent a day over there last week getting a lesson on the THUNDER MAX ECM and I can tell you I was very imperssed to say the least.



Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Twolanerider]

The discription Harley has in the SE catalog talks about injector size being larger. On your stock 103 that is the last thing you would want!
THE DAWG

That was the first reaction I had when I first saw that new throttle body in the catalog.  So many of the HD options are advertised/intended to sound good to the masses.  

They'll be good enough to be generally ok, but rarely specifically great for the average application.  This was only another example.  

Really, whether someone is asking about injectors, carb jets or whatever; the simple fact that it's just "bigger" may be a concern for the pimply faced teenager with the car going around the town square on Saturday nights.  But once that same kid gets old or experienced enough to actually start understanding what he's doing he's going to be thinking it through a little more.

[the O`Fender]

O'Fender you really don't know do you?? ZIPPERHEADS??  One thing that Twolane brought up was you would want a choice in injector size. The discription Harley has in the SE catalog talks about injector size being larger. On your stock 103 that is the last thing you would want! They also talk about heads (something we all know you know nothing about) and the heads they are talking about are not the stock 103 heads. Without a head that can deliver the goods the oversize injectors are worthless. Yes they are inexpensive but it is just like carb jets you can have a whole toolbox full, but unless you have the right ones they are of no good to you!!!!! If you think the HD TB's are so good, then invest in one and play with it and then post your dyno sheet. If it works that would be great. It might be something that some others on here might want to try. One thing I can tell you is that my 04 SEEG with a Zippers 50mm throttle body and a Zippers THUNDER MAX ECM and a THUNDERHEADER spun the dyno (in very bad air) by a very competent dyno man (that a lot of us know) that has no interest in ZIPPERS what so ever at 103.3 HP and 104.5 TQ. I can tell you also that the same bike turned an even higher number on a LAND and SEA DYNO just the other day. Anyone that knows DYNO's will tell you that you will always get a lower number on a Land and Sea setup!

Now O'FENDER ole buddy you may think that the ZIPPERHEADS are tooooo expensive. The fact is a lot of work went into the little package that I installed. They put more time into R&D than you could ever imangine. I spent a day over there last week getting a lesson on the THUNDER MAX ECM and I can tell you I was very imperssed to say the least.



Be Safe

THE DAWG

First: No!!! Harley does not say the injectors are LARGER they say higher flow rate (I guess that means it would deliver more fuel to match the increased air delivery but what do I know) so obviously you know less about fuel injection than I know about heads!!!
Second: the stock heads and the 103+(plus) castings are identical (I personally had both sets on the bench at the same time to compare) the only difference were the valve sizes and the ports were cleaned up (very little).
Third: I am not sure if your comments about R&D suggests that Zipperheads does more than HD but if that is what you believe then so be it.
Fourth: my first dyno sheet (fat cat 2-1, SEAirCleaner, race tuner mod nothing more) was 100hp 103fpt!!!  
Fifth: Match Race?

[DCFIREMANN]

First: No!!! Harley does not say the injectors are LARGER they say higher flow rate (I guess that means it would deliver more fuel to match the increased air delivery but what do I know) so obviously you know less about fuel injection than I know about heads!!!
Second: the stock heads and the 103+(plus) castings are identical (I personally had both sets on the bench at the same time to compare) the only difference were the valve sizes and the ports were cleaned up (very little).
Third: I am not sure if your comments about R&D suggests that Zipperheads does more than HD but if that is what you believe then so be it.
Fourth: my first dyno sheet (fat cat 2-1, SEAirCleaner, race tuner mod nothing more) was 100hp 103fpt!!!

[Fatboy]

What I get out of the "DCFiremann vs. O'Fender" grudge match.

DC =

[Ed Ramberger - One_Screamin_Eagle]

Did anyone ever these two that arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics?  Even if you win, you're still retarded.

[Twolanerider]

Fatboy, that's about the most profound thing I've ever seen  [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

[DCFIREMANN]

Brian my head hurts from banging on that wall!!!!! Now that was a good one.

OSE I guess I am now one of Jerry's kids!!!!!

Twolane it might have been profound but toooo me it was very funny!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Twolanerider]

Twolane it might have been profound but toooo me it was very funny!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Dawg, the ONLY reason that one didn't cost me a soda spit is because I didn't have a mouthfull at the wrong time  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[hd-dude]

Its been a great match, I think the ball's in O's court [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

[the O`Fender]

First flow rate at the same pressure would be a larger injector!!!!!So I guess I do know a lot more about fuel injection then you know about heads!
Second the castings are not the same!!!!!! You need to look a little closer.
Third the valve springs and valves are not the same!!!!!!!
fourth I doubt the MOCO runs a dyno full time 8 hours a day to test high performance products in thier facility!!!!!!
Match race??? Any time like I said it is much higher on a land/sea dyno!!!!

Now again you just showed me you really know nothing about heads and I guess we can add fuel injection to your resume!!!!!! Maybe if I look back I can find some bad information you posted on the timken bearing. Oh and BTW it is much stronger than your stock bearing assy!

You never did respond to the post I made on the Zippers ECM thread. With the wealth of information you gave us in that thread on Harley heads you really could have caused some innocent person to destroy a motor!!!!

Now you can go back and ask your good ole bud that gives you all this info and ask him to check it out again. I can tell you my information came directly from HARLEY DAVIDSON POWERTRAIN OPERATIONS!!!!!! Yes I guess I have some very good INSIDE INFORMATION! I also have some VERY GOOD FRIENDS!

Till next time

Be Safe

THE DAWG

I guess the heads I got are one of a kind!!!
Mine have triple valve springs and I did not install them!!! now according to harley's spec for the triple valve springs max lift = .650 same ones in the  103+ HEADS.
If you go back and read what I said "THE ONLY DIFFERENCE WAS THE VALVE SIZES" and I stand by that, the ports have no major differences!!!
Now as far as timkens being stronger (superior was the word I used), how are gonna prove that? I guess would could start counting all the Twin Cam bottom end failures versus evo bottom end failures!!! but I guess that wouldn't be fair evo's been around longer (maybe look at the service intervals for both  [smiley=oops.gif]). Then again what do those harley engineers know they only been doin' this for a little over a hundred years, I'm sure they went to an inferior product so we would have to rebuild our bottom ends more frequently because they don't "run a dyno full time 8 hours a day to test high performance products in thier facility" to do that they would probably need a bigger budget huh? By the way what's the percentage zippers kicks you back? [smiley=oops.gif]

[DCFIREMANN]

I guess the heads I got are one of a kind!!!
Mine have triple valve springs and I did not install them!!! now according to harley's spec for the triple valve springs max lift = .650 same ones in the

[Fatboy]

SCIENCE AND SKILL WILL ALWAYS OVER COME IGNORANCE AND SUPERSTITION

Be Safe

THE DAWG

_____________________________________________________________________________

I think I've got it now........ [smiley=idea2.gif]

Translation:

[Twolanerider]

Fatboy, you get a new job here.