Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 10  All

Author Topic: Top end "clacking" sound  (Read 53210 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

DICKW

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1908
  • If you ain't Riding..You ain't living
Re: Top end "clacking" sound
« Reply #60 on: September 01, 2009, 01:21:28 PM »

OK, I am reading all these comments about the Screamin Eagle 110 engine problems and I am getting worried.  I have been looking to buy a CVO in the near future but why would I pay around $30K for a bike with an engine that has so many bugs that HOG didn't work out before releasing to the public?  I can live with a few nits but I cannot tolerate bad engineering.  Please give me some reassurances why I should buy a CVO now.  Do you think the 2010's have the same engine problems?  Sorry for being so blunt.

If you are that worried buy something else.
Logged
2009 Screaming Eagle Electra Glide Ultra Classic, Hawg Wired, KW 10.5, 2" Pull Back Handlebars, Dakota Digital, V&H Power Dual w/ Monster Ovals (Black Tips),
SE Air Cleaner, Zippers 575 Cams, Zippers Adjustable Push-rods, Fueling Lifters,
Thunder-Max Auto Tune, SE Compensator, Legend Air Suspension.

SBB

  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16404
  • Go fast or go home! EBCM member # 2.36 .01%
    • CVO2: 2011.5 SEUC
    • CVO3: 2012 SERG
Re: Top end "clacking" sound
« Reply #61 on: September 01, 2009, 02:41:40 PM »

If you are that worried buy something else.


I agree!

SBB
Logged

2012      SERG  "Nu Blue"
2018      Goldwing   
2003      HD Electra Glide Classic Silver and Black, of course!                
2 2012   Suzuki Burgmans
2018      Shelby GT350, 963 crank hp, 825 rear wheel hp

Hoist!

  • Monster
  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21634
  • This chit ain't ROCKET SCIENCE!!!!

    • CVO1: '07C FLHRSE3, BLACK ICE OF COURSE, CUSTOM 110" TC 6-SPEED +++, "CYBIL"!!!
    • CVO2: '99 FXR3 BRIGHT & DARK CANDY BLUE W/FLAMES, STAGE II 80" EVO 5-SPEED +++, "JOY"!!!
    • CVO3: 4: & 5: '85 FXWG BLACK w/CUSTOM FLAMES, 110" EVO 6-SPEED +++ CVO style!!!; '08 NSMC PROSG CUSTOM FXR BASED PRO STREET BLACK, 89" EVO 5-SPEED, VERY FAST!!!; '09 NSMC HSTBBR CUSTOM RIGID HOISTBOBBER, SILVER METALFLAKE BATES SOLO SEAT & TIN w/BLACK WISHBONE FRAME, 80" EVO (w/Shovelhead bottom end) 4-SPEED! VERY COOL!!!
Re: Top end "clacking" sound
« Reply #62 on: September 01, 2009, 02:44:07 PM »

Frankly, the engine hasn't changed since it came out. They fixed  the leaks supposedly. They lowered CR to try to get the heat out. If you've been waiting since the '07's came out for a design improvement on the 110's, don't hold yer breath. You will turn BLUE!!! ;)

Hoist! :coolblue:
Logged
"We wanna be free to ride our machines without being hassled by The Man!"

Traxxion Dynamics Suspension Rules! "It ain't braggin' if you can back it up!"

"Cause I'm sitting on top of the world!" (zoom in on satellite map in my Profile)

Twolanerider

  • 25K CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 50549
  • EBCM #1.5 Emeritus DSP # ? Critter Gawker #?
    • MO


    • CVO1: 2000 Triple Red Screamin' Eagle Road Glide
    • CVO2: 2002 Candy Brandywine Screamin' Eagle Road King
    • CVO3: 1999 Arresting Red FXR2
Re: Top end "clacking" sound
« Reply #63 on: September 01, 2009, 02:47:11 PM »

Frankly, the engine hasn't changed since it came out. They fixed  the leaks supposedly. They lowered CR to try to get the heat out. If you've been waiting since the '07's came out for a design improvement on the 110's, don't hold yer breath. You will turn BLUE!!! ;)

Hoist! :coolblue:

The cranks have stopped coming apart and/or spinning so wildly they ate oil pumps for a regular snack as they did during most of their first year.  So the dinkuses (dinkii ?) changed enough to improve more than just the leaking head gaskets.
Logged

Hoist!

  • Monster
  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21634
  • This chit ain't ROCKET SCIENCE!!!!

    • CVO1: '07C FLHRSE3, BLACK ICE OF COURSE, CUSTOM 110" TC 6-SPEED +++, "CYBIL"!!!
    • CVO2: '99 FXR3 BRIGHT & DARK CANDY BLUE W/FLAMES, STAGE II 80" EVO 5-SPEED +++, "JOY"!!!
    • CVO3: 4: & 5: '85 FXWG BLACK w/CUSTOM FLAMES, 110" EVO 6-SPEED +++ CVO style!!!; '08 NSMC PROSG CUSTOM FXR BASED PRO STREET BLACK, 89" EVO 5-SPEED, VERY FAST!!!; '09 NSMC HSTBBR CUSTOM RIGID HOISTBOBBER, SILVER METALFLAKE BATES SOLO SEAT & TIN w/BLACK WISHBONE FRAME, 80" EVO (w/Shovelhead bottom end) 4-SPEED! VERY COOL!!!
Re: Top end "clacking" sound
« Reply #64 on: September 01, 2009, 02:52:59 PM »

The cranks have stopped coming apart and/or spinning so wildly they ate oil pumps for a regular snack as they did during most of their first year.  So the dinkuses (dinkii ?) changed enough to improve more than just the leaking head gaskets.

Nobodys' convinced me that anything's changed with the cranks either. What'd you hear from the dinkii on that? ::) ;D ;D ;D ;)

Hoist! :coolblue:
Logged
"We wanna be free to ride our machines without being hassled by The Man!"

Traxxion Dynamics Suspension Rules! "It ain't braggin' if you can back it up!"

"Cause I'm sitting on top of the world!" (zoom in on satellite map in my Profile)

Twolanerider

  • 25K CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 50549
  • EBCM #1.5 Emeritus DSP # ? Critter Gawker #?
    • MO


    • CVO1: 2000 Triple Red Screamin' Eagle Road Glide
    • CVO2: 2002 Candy Brandywine Screamin' Eagle Road King
    • CVO3: 1999 Arresting Red FXR2
Re: Top end "clacking" sound
« Reply #65 on: September 01, 2009, 03:03:07 PM »

Nobodys' convinced me that anything's changed with the cranks either. What'd you hear from the dinkii on that? ::) ;D ;D ;D ;)

Hoist! :coolblue:

They're not dropping like flies as they did when first released.  So simple observartion suggests that either something is different or that all riders after mid-08 now only pull to 2400 RPM and never load the engine.  As for the dinkii or anyone else convincing you of anything (evidence notwithstanding), we both know it ain't gonna happen :huepfenlol2: .
Logged

grc

  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14216
  • AKA Grouchy Old Fart
    • IN


    • CVO1: 2005 SEEG2
Re: Top end "clacking" sound
« Reply #66 on: September 01, 2009, 03:14:26 PM »

I believe, if we were able to bug the executive washroom, you would find that the crank issues only got that bad because of improper machining and press fit.  The basic design didn't change, the process and qc obviously did (stroker crank went from a CVO and SE catalog part to 100% of production).  I still don't trust it, because it has always been a marginal design anyway, but at least the odds of it making it past the two year warranty seems to be much better than in '07.  It sure was nice of the MoCo to thoroughly test the engines to catch all those bugs.  Oh, they didn't tell you guys?  That was part of the "CVO experience" for '07, getting to be an unpaid test rider for the MoCo.  In case they forgot to thank you, let me just say that I really appreciate what you all went through on my behalf.  Based on all the issues reported in '07 and '08, I saved $30k.  As in, didn't buy that SERG that I had been wanting for years when it came out with a 110.

Jerry
Logged
Jerry - 2005 Cherry SEEG  -  Member # 1155

H-D and me  -  a classic love / hate relationship.  Current score:  love 40, hate 50, bewildered 10.

Big-T

  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 169

    • CVO1: 09" SERG O&B
Re: Top end "clacking" sound
« Reply #67 on: September 01, 2009, 05:33:35 PM »

I will just ride the crap out of mine then replace it with another more dependable engine after my 7 year warranty runs out. T.
Logged
Never too old to Rock N Roll but too young to die!

SBB

  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16404
  • Go fast or go home! EBCM member # 2.36 .01%
    • CVO2: 2011.5 SEUC
    • CVO3: 2012 SERG
Re: Top end "clacking" sound
« Reply #68 on: September 01, 2009, 05:37:13 PM »

I will just ride the crap out of mine then replace it with another more dependable engine after my 7 year warranty runs out. T.


 I tried that.
 Didn't work.

 ::) ::) ::)


  SBB
Logged

2012      SERG  "Nu Blue"
2018      Goldwing   
2003      HD Electra Glide Classic Silver and Black, of course!                
2 2012   Suzuki Burgmans
2018      Shelby GT350, 963 crank hp, 825 rear wheel hp

Trapperdog

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2965

    • CVO1: 2007 FLHTCUSE2
    • CVO2: 2009 ST1300 Police
    • CVO3: 2006 ST1300
Re: Top end "clacking" sound
« Reply #69 on: September 01, 2009, 07:22:39 PM »

I believe, if we were able to bug the executive washroom, you would find that the crank issues only got that bad because of improper machining and press fit.  The basic design didn't change, the process and qc obviously did (stroker crank went from a CVO and SE catalog part to 100% of production).  I still don't trust it, because it has always been a marginal design anyway, but at least the odds of it making it past the two year warranty seems to be much better than in '07.  It sure was nice of the MoCo to thoroughly test the engines to catch all those bugs.  Oh, they didn't tell you guys?  That was part of the "CVO experience" for '07, getting to be an unpaid test rider for the MoCo.  In case they forgot to thank you, let me just say that I really appreciate what you all went through on my behalf.  Based on all the issues reported in '07 and '08, I saved $30k.  As in, didn't buy that SERG that I had been wanting for years when it came out with a 110.

Jerry
But we got those dandy coffee table books for free.  ;D Now where did I put mine......well worth it to me  :book:  :nervous: :nervous:
Logged

sixstringer99

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
Re: Top end "clacking" sound
« Reply #70 on: September 01, 2009, 08:44:12 PM »

Yes, that really did make me feel better.  My first Harley was a new '73 Sporty, no bugs, no leaks.  C'mon, what happened in the last 36 years? :nixweiss:
Logged

djkak

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1278
  • FLHRSEI.ORG
Re: Top end "clacking" sound
« Reply #71 on: September 01, 2009, 08:55:50 PM »

The cranks have stopped coming apart and/or spinning so wildly they ate oil pumps for a regular snack as they did during most of their first year.  So the dinkuses (dinkii ?) changed enough to improve more than just the leaking head gaskets.

Nobodys' convinced me that anything's changed with the cranks either. What'd you hear from the dinkii on that? ::) ;D ;D ;D ;)

Hoist! :coolblue:

They're not dropping like flies as they did when first released.  So simple observartion suggests that either something is different or that all riders after mid-08 now only pull to 2400 RPM and never load the engine.  As for the dinkii or anyone else convincing you of anything (evidence notwithstanding), we both know it ain't gonna happen :huepfenlol2: .

A number of things happened in ’07 that seem to coincide with the crank issues. In ’07 the Cruise Drive was expanded from the Dyna Platform to include all Big Twins. It seems that the new larger motor sprocket would easily max out the capacity of its shock absorbing compensator. This is evident by the sound made when the mechanical stops are reached at maximum travel.

When problems became evident in 2007, one of the first countermeasures was the torque smoothing calibration. This was intended to prevent the engine from pulling down hard at extremely low RPM. The resulting powertrain snatch would hammer the crankshaft off the compensator’s mechanical stops resulting in severe torque spikes at the crankpin, ultimately shifting the flywheel assembly.

One of the next countermeasures was the Isolated Drive System introduced on 2008 touring platform machines. The IDS is also offered as a retrofit for 2007 touring machines. This device absorbs shock loads generated from the powertrain, reducing stress at the crankpin.

Another countermeasure that followed in calendar 2008 was the high capacity compensating sprocket. This device is original equipment on select machines which are not equipped with the IDS, and is also offered as an accessory. It comes with a cool looking thrust washer that you can put a chain through and wear around your neck if desired. Consider picking up an extra thrust washer for that; chicks dig it.

Regarding other internal countermeasures; the buzz around the water cooler is that the extreme interference fit of the crankpin into the flywheel doesn’t tolerate being disturbed after it has been assembled. My understanding is that if the joint is moved after assembly, even for truing, the integrity of the joint will be compromised, reducing the torque capacity of the assembly.

Somewhere inside a pocket protector there is a calculation based on production variables that results in a substantial number which is used to specify the trueness of this assembly. So far it seems in practice that this number is not representative of the actual assembled component. It would be interesting to have a look inside her pocket protector for some additional insight on this.

Another thing heard was that plugs are good for about a 5% increase in the joint’s capacity, and that welding severely compromises the joint, leaving just the weld to support it. Having used a welder to shrink countless bearing races and an occasional valve seat, this makes perfect sense.

As always, this chatter is JMHO.
Logged

Hoist!

  • Monster
  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21634
  • This chit ain't ROCKET SCIENCE!!!!

    • CVO1: '07C FLHRSE3, BLACK ICE OF COURSE, CUSTOM 110" TC 6-SPEED +++, "CYBIL"!!!
    • CVO2: '99 FXR3 BRIGHT & DARK CANDY BLUE W/FLAMES, STAGE II 80" EVO 5-SPEED +++, "JOY"!!!
    • CVO3: 4: & 5: '85 FXWG BLACK w/CUSTOM FLAMES, 110" EVO 6-SPEED +++ CVO style!!!; '08 NSMC PROSG CUSTOM FXR BASED PRO STREET BLACK, 89" EVO 5-SPEED, VERY FAST!!!; '09 NSMC HSTBBR CUSTOM RIGID HOISTBOBBER, SILVER METALFLAKE BATES SOLO SEAT & TIN w/BLACK WISHBONE FRAME, 80" EVO (w/Shovelhead bottom end) 4-SPEED! VERY COOL!!!
Re: Top end "clacking" sound
« Reply #72 on: September 01, 2009, 09:00:26 PM »

A number of things happened in ’07 that seem to coincide with the crank issues. In ’07 the Cruise Drive was expanded from the Dyna Platform to include all Big Twins. It seems that the new larger motor sprocket would easily max out the capacity of its shock absorbing compensator. This is evident by the sound made when the mechanical stops are reached at maximum travel.

When problems became evident in 2007, one of the first countermeasures was the torque smoothing calibration. This was intended to prevent the engine from pulling down hard at extremely low RPM. The resulting powertrain snatch would hammer the crankshaft off the compensator’s mechanical stops resulting in severe torque spikes at the crankpin, ultimately shifting the flywheel assembly.

One of the next countermeasures was the Isolated Drive System introduced on 2008 touring platform machines. The IDS is also offered as a retrofit for 2007 touring machines. This device absorbs shock loads generated from the powertrain, reducing stress at the crankpin.

Another countermeasure that followed in calendar 2008 was the high capacity compensating sprocket. This device is original equipment on select machines which are not equipped with the IDS, and is also offered as an accessory. It comes with a cool looking thrust washer that you can put a chain through and wear around your neck if desired. Consider picking up an extra thrust washer for that; chicks dig it.

Regarding other internal countermeasures; the buzz around the water cooler is that the extreme interference fit of the crankpin into the flywheel doesn’t tolerate being disturbed after it has been assembled. My understanding is that if the joint is moved after assembly, even for truing, the integrity of the joint will be compromised, reducing the torque capacity of the assembly.

Somewhere inside a pocket protector there is a calculation based on production variables that results in a substantial number which is used to specify the trueness of this assembly. So far it seems in practice that this number is not representative of the actual assembled component. It would be interesting to have a look inside her pocket protector for some additional insight on this.

Another thing heard was that plugs are good for about a 5% increase in the joint’s capacity, and that welding severely compromises the joint, leaving just the weld to support it. Having used a welder to shrink countless bearing races and an occasional valve seat, this makes perfect sense.

As always, this chatter is JMHO.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say! Thanks dj! :2vrolijk_21: ;D :smilie_staub: :smilie_staub: :smilie_staub:

Hoist! :coolblue:
Logged
"We wanna be free to ride our machines without being hassled by The Man!"

Traxxion Dynamics Suspension Rules! "It ain't braggin' if you can back it up!"

"Cause I'm sitting on top of the world!" (zoom in on satellite map in my Profile)

SBB

  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16404
  • Go fast or go home! EBCM member # 2.36 .01%
    • CVO2: 2011.5 SEUC
    • CVO3: 2012 SERG
Re: Top end "clacking" sound
« Reply #73 on: September 01, 2009, 09:17:00 PM »

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say! Thanks dj! :2vrolijk_21: ;D :smilie_staub: :smilie_staub: :smilie_staub:

Hoist! :coolblue:


Well, why didn't you?
You, at a loss for words?


So djkak, IYHO, would you rather own a 2006 Harley or a 2007?
The more I read about the motor changes made by Harley for year model 2007 forward the more I think a 2006 model year and earlier is a better choice.
Am I wrong?

SBB

Logged

2012      SERG  "Nu Blue"
2018      Goldwing   
2003      HD Electra Glide Classic Silver and Black, of course!                
2 2012   Suzuki Burgmans
2018      Shelby GT350, 963 crank hp, 825 rear wheel hp

CVOJOE

  • 2.5K CVO Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2884
  • Life's a journey, why not enjoy the ride?
Re: Top end "clacking" sound
« Reply #74 on: September 01, 2009, 09:18:52 PM »

 It sure was nice of the MoCo to thoroughly test the engines to catch all those bugs.  Oh, they didn't tell you guys?  That was part of the "CVO experience" for '07, getting to be an unpaid test rider for the MoCo.  In case they forgot to thank you, let me just say that I really appreciate what you all went through on my behalf.  Based on all the issues reported in '07 and '08, I saved $30k.  As in, didn't buy that SERG that I had been wanting for years when it came out with a 110.Jerry

Tell it like it is Jerry..............110" was not ready for prime time...maybe still is, but we'll see how the new testers fare.
 :2vrolijk_21:  :2vrolijk_21: :drink:
Logged
2003 FLHRSEI2. (Sold) :(

Horsepower is how fast you hit a wall.Torque is how far you will take the wall with you.
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 10  All
 

Page created in 0.193 seconds with 20 queries.