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[jdracing]

GC Super, here's a thread on the same subject from this board--using the CVO Fat Boy map (127MK004) on a true dual setup:  http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1127134281

I haven't tried it yet, but I have modified and saved that map as suggested in the above thread, and am waiting to try it back to back with the map specified for the '05 SEEG with slip ons and a SE A/C (the 127HX022 map).  I put the V&H Dresser Duals on last weekend, and thought the Fat Boy map might be a good place to start until I get it to the dyno tuner.  Just comparing the two maps side by side, the CVO Fat Boy map is more aggressive on timing, and seems a bit more balanced front-to-rear cylinders on VE than the 127HX022 map.  

I may revive the above thread after I spend some time comparing and can give a qualitative (i.e seat-of-the-pants) perpsective.  

And CVO-Rider, I agree with you--the dealer doesn't have much incentive to work through true dual differences to make it perform right if the dyno time is "thrown in" as part of the SERT package.  Easier just to cap on the customer's parts. . . .

  

[johnnymap]

GC, the guy that did my RT install and dyno, did not act like he did not like TD's.  He did say that when he has started with Rineharts they were about 10ftlbs less that were he started with my set up.   I am not sure that he got everything out of it.  It does run better. I think the reason that they may not like the TD's is that it is not the easy fix.  That is why I raised the question the other night, to see if any one knew of a tuner that would really take an interest in what I was trying to accomplish.

I my go talk to Piper and see what they have to say.

Thanks

[jdracing]

Hey GC and CVO-Rider, I just downloaded that 127MK004 ('05 SEFB) map modified as indicated in the above thread, in place of the 127HX022 '05 SEEG map.  Early returns are very positive.  The bike feels stronger all the way to redline, in all gears.  I had noticed after installing the V&H Dresser Duals (using 127HX022), at least from the seat of the pants, the bike didn't feel as strong, particularly going WOT in second gear from about 2500 to redline, as it did with the stock headers (using 127HX022).  Well, it does now with the new map, and perhaps even a bit better.  No sign of pinging, at least on this cool morning.  Won't know for sure until I have it dyno tuned and see what RC Cycles comes up with, but for now I'm pretty happy with it.  

  

[syclone]

Hey GC and CVO-Rider, I just downloaded that 127MK004 ('05 SEFB) map modified as indicated in the above thread, in place of the 127HX022 '05 SEEG map.  Early returns are very positive.  The bike feels stronger all the way to redline, in all gears.  I had noticed after installing the V&H Dresser Duals (using 127HX022), at least from the seat of the pants, the bike didn't feel as strong, particularly going WOT in second gear from about 2500 to redline, as it did with the stock headers (using 127HX022).  Well, it does now with the new map, and perhaps even a bit better.  No sign of pinging, at least on this cool morning.  Won't know for sure until I have it dyno tuned and see what RC Cycles comes up with, but for now I'm pretty happy with it.  

  

That 127MK004 will work even better with a 3.37..and with 93 octane you wont be able to make it ping if you try..... will help all the guys who go the Rinehart route also..with the changes to the stock 127MK004 map I suggested ..I bet there is only a little left to be found on the dyno.
It's just that that map some how happens to be very good....and the changes needed are only to the target A/F's and to tweek the Decel tables if it pops.  It's a load and ride for the guy without dyno access or who doenst either want to spend the money for a tune or has no skilled tuner nearby.. . foolin around for a couple of hours with the VE tables (where you should be to add/subtract fuel) really didnt get us much...  The Rineharts should use the small baffles.

[jdracing]

Syclone, I owe you a debt of gratitude for having provided this information, way back when.  For everyone else who didn't follow the link I posted above, it was Syclone who brought that map to this board and suggested the modifications to make it better for a true dual setup.

I may do the 3.37's and a 6 speed eventually, and maybe 93 octane will make it even more robust, but I rode it a pretty good distance today (on 91), got it good and hot, and it ran strong with no problems whatsoever.  I followed your suggestions, including decrementing the decel enleanment by 50% across the board and adjusting all AFR's which were over 14 down to 13.9.  Didn't change anything else, loaded it up, and went riding.  No popping on decel, no pinging I could hear.  I'll be really interested in seeing on the dyno how close to "as good as it can get with this hardware" the thing is.  

Thanks again.    

[erniezap]

Jeff,

Who do you use for dyno?  I use Bruce at Horsepower Express in Campbell (2 blocks from my house) and I like his work.

[jdracing]

Haven't taken it in yet--but I will use Ron at RC Cycles in Hayward.  Heard good things about him from a variety of sources, and he is equally comfortable with a SERT or PC III.  It's interesting talking to him, because he wasn't particularly concerned whether I went with Rinehart's, V&H true duals, or stock pipes and slip ons.  On the SEEG he's pretty confident he can get about the same out of any of them.  He's got some good reviews on this board as well.

[syclone]

Syclone, I owe you a debt of gratitude for having provided this information, way back when.  For everyone else who didn't follow the link I posted above, it was Syclone who brought that map to this board and suggested the modifications to make it better for a true dual setup.

I may do the 3.37's and a 6 speed eventually, and maybe 93 octane will make it even more robust, but I rode it a pretty good distance today (on 91), got it good and hot, and it ran strong with no problems whatsoever.  I followed your suggestions, including decrementing the decel enleanment by 50% across the board and adjusting all AFR's which were over 14 down to 13.9.  Didn't change anything else, loaded it up, and went riding.  No popping on decel, no pinging I could hear.  I'll be really interested in seeing on the dyno how close to "as good as it can get with this hardware" the thing is.  

Thanks again.    

Be sure to let us know what Ron at RC finds.  and his changes.  If it turns out to be a 90-95  percent tune for a true duals 103, it will be a good alternative for guys with SERTS who dont want to either buy the whole Feedom pkg...or who go with V&H and no dyno session.

[GC_Super]

There's some good info here. Do any of you know if there is a FB map for the 06 version?  It seems that most with 06 bikes haven't been too happy with 05 maps. They all seem to hesitate off idle.  I know there is now a 06  103" race map on the SERT for a 103 w/pipes, AC, and stock headpipes. But is there a specific map for the 06 FB 103 race application?  

[syclone]

Some one who's purchased the 06 disc or latest SERT should chime in here. I only go to 4.12

[jdracing]

I have what I believe is the latest SERT--got it last month--Version 4.5.2.  The only '06 model CVO map is for the FLHTCUSE (141MP002)--there is no equivalent SEFB map, like there was for the '05 SEFB, unfortunately.  There are a couple of maps for '06 "Super High Output" motors, which one could try, but, of course, we're talking very different cams, heads, etc.  

GC, I thought about this question over the weekend for folks who have an '06 SEU and want the equivalent of the '05 SEFB map for their bike.  I was specifically thinking of FR8TRN, because I know he just put on V&H Dresser Duals and is running a SERT now on his SEU.

I guess if I were in that position (of owning an '06 SEU), I might spend some time trying to understand the differences between the '05 SEEG (127HX022) and '06 SEU (141MP002) maps, table by table, and then try to superimpose those difference onto the '05 SEFB map (127MK004).  Kind of an extrapolation of the year-to-year changes which you then use to create a "new" '06 SEFB map.  That map could then be further modified as described by Syclone in the link attached above.  Obviously this is very imprecise science at best, but it might get you to an understanding how the SERT maps change because of year-over-year model changes, and then use that understanding to create a new SEFB map from the '05 SEFB version (127MK004).  It might at least provide a closer starting point. 

Anyway, that's the best I could come up with.

[Fatboy]

Be sure to let us know what Ron at RC finds.  and his changes.  If it turns out to be a 90-95  percent tune for a true duals 103, it will be a good alternative for guys with SERTS who dont want to either buy the whole Feedom pkg...or who go with V&H and no dyno session.

______________________________________________________

Syclone,

 I currently have a SERT, Custom Hi Flow Velocity Stack, bored to 48mm Throttle Body & Intake Manifold, with V&H slip-ons using stock head pipes. Using the base SERT map for 103, Hi-flow AC and slip-ons. It dyno's at 90 hp & 99 tq on an 1180 lb wheel Dyna Jet machine. I think this setup is running lean as it seem's run hot and the right side slipon is starting to yellow...... :-?

 Anyway, I have been thinking about going to true dual's........would adding just the V&H true header's work well with remapping or should I consider a whole new exhaust system? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

 The local guy I've been using things the bike is fine as is..........I'm not so sure........especially after reading and researching on this website.  :-/

 

 

[syclone]

______________________________________________________

Syclone,

 I currently have a SERT, Custom Hi Flow Velocity Stack, bored to 48mm Throttle Body & Intake Manifold, with V&H slip-ons using stock head pipes. Using the base SERT map for 103, Hi-flow AC and slip-ons. It dyno's at 90 hp & 99 tq on an 1180 lb wheel Dyna Jet machine. I think this setup is running lean as it seem's run hot and the right side slipon is starting to yellow...... :-?

 Anyway, I have been thinking about going to true dual's........would adding just the V&H true header's work well with remapping or should I consider a whole new exhaust system? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

 The local guy I've been using things the bike is fine as is..........I'm not so sure........especially after reading and researching on this website.  :-/

 

 

You should should be good with the V&H duals and slip ons. Just use the 05 127MK004 modified map.
It's VEs are a tad richer than the FLHTCSE2 map also . If you want to stay with what you have...reduce the target A/F's to 13.9 anyplace they are higher...Raise all the values in the VE tables from 1500 rpm and up, at -0- and 20 map by a couple of points.  if it doesnt pop leave the DEcel table alone. If it does ..cut them in half .

[GC_Super]

I have what I believe is the latest SERT--got it last month--Version 4.5.2.  The only '06 model CVO map is for the FLHTCUSE (141MP002)--there is no equivalent SEFB map, like there was for the '05 SEFB, unfortunately.  There are a couple of maps for '06 "Super High Output" motors, which one could try, but, of course, we're talking very different cams, heads, etc.  

GC, I thought about this question over the weekend for folks who have an '06 SEU and want the equivalent of the '05 SEFB map for their bike.  I was specifically thinking of FR8TRN, because I know he just put on V&H Dresser Duals and is running a SERT now on his SEU.

I guess if I were in that position (of owning an '06 SEU), I might spend some time trying to understand the differences between the '05 SEEG (127HX022) and '06 SEU (141MP002) maps, table by table, and then try to superimpose those difference onto the '05 SEFB map (127MK004).  Kind of an extrapolation of the year-to-year changes which you then use to create a "new" '06 SEFB map.  That map could then be further modified as described by Syclone in the link attached above.  Obviously this is very imprecise science at best, but it might get you to an understanding how the SERT maps change because of year-over-year model changes, and then use that understanding to create a new SEFB map from the '05 SEFB version (127MK004).  It might at least provide a closer starting point. 

Anyway, that's the best I could come up with.

jd, thanks for the info and your time. I will probably have to start with the 14100MP002 for break in and then dyno.

Thanks again, Robert

[jdracing]

Well, that's certainly the easier/faster way to go about it, Robert.  I'll get there eventually, too with mine.