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[HD Street Performance]

The dealer fixes IMO and IME are band aides.
They have not addressed anything as long as they remain EPA compliant. A tuner with a cam change (non-harley or SE other than SE255) can cool them sufficiently and all of those issues will not present themselves (notice I sisn't say they are fixed they just won't bleed.) There are others too like guides that slip or valves seize. Even with the issues in EPA trim they don't hit 310 oil in 10 minutes. This is EXTREME.

[afontes]

What's the best way to check the engine temperature? I just purchased a 2010 SE Fat Bob and have put around 50 or so miles on it. I noticed that in doing this the engine temp management system kicks in. The manual says it will do this at around 287 degrees. If that is correct, then that seems high. Does it not?? What is an average temp for this type of bike with the 110? Thoughts?? Thanks!

[sadunbar]

What's the best way to check the engine temperature? I just purchased a 2010 SE Fat Bob and have put around 50 or so miles on it. I noticed that in doing this the engine temp management system kicks in. The manual says it will do this at around 287 degrees. If that is correct, then that seems high. Does it not?? What is an average temp for this type of bike with the 110? Thoughts?? Thanks!

85f outside temperature @ 75 mph highway speeds - I average about 210F oil temp on my 110 SEUC.  I've never had the engine temp management system kick on in 12,000 miles...   

[afontes]

THe system kicks on so I am thinking the engine is hot. how can I measure the engine temp the best way? If it is running hot, what can be done to reduce the temp?

[HDDOCFL]

THe system kicks on so I am thinking the engine is hot. how can I measure the engine temp the best way? If it is running hot, what can be done to reduce the temp?

I would start by watching your oil temp, can be done with a mechanical temp guage in the dip stick or a digital temp dipstick. These bikes all need tuning to get temps down.    Doc

[LarryB]

go to Home depot and get one of those laser/infrared digital thermometers thingys
I use one to verify my led dipsrick is accurate.
use to to shoot the motors temps shoot, it by the spark plugs

[grc]

What's the best way to check the engine temperature? I just purchased a 2010 SE Fat Bob and have put around 50 or so miles on it. I noticed that in doing this the engine temp management system kicks in. The manual says it will do this at around 287 degrees. If that is correct, then that seems high. Does it not?? What is an average temp for this type of bike with the 110? Thoughts?? Thanks!

The idle temp management system should kick in around 287°F metal temp measured at the engine temp sensor in the front head.  You can tap into the ECM with the dealer's Digital Tech equipment and read the data from the sensor, but that's not a solution if you want to check while riding.  LarryB offered a good idea with the infrared gauge, which also allows you to check the rear head which tends to run much hotter than the front for obvious reasons, but once again it isn't something you can monitor while riding down the road.  For that, a good direct reading oil temp gauge is your best bet.  Oil temp isn't the same as head temp, and it doesn't change as rapidly, but it does give you a good idea of what's going on.  BTW, the older models had a different system, and some of those didn't fully engage the temp management until the head temps got well over 300°F.  So 287° is relatively conservative compared to what was done in the past.  See attachment.

You should find that as the engine accumulates some miles it should cool down slightly due to decreased friction, but if you want to cool it down enough to improve reliability you will need to have it tuned for a richer mixture.  Addition of a good oil cooler will also help, but it won't do much sitting still or in stop and go traffic.  With a brand new engine you need to avoid idling and heavy traffic.

Such is life with an air cooled dinosaur.  It's a shame, but what you are experiencing is exactly why the air cooled V-twin is fast approaching obsolescence, and also why most other manufacturer's long ago went to water cooling. 

Jerry

[afontes]

Thanks for the info all.

Safe Ride!!

[Texas 103]

If you just used the SEST to install one of the canned maps for the new pipes, you are probably still running very lean at idle and low speeds.  See if you can get the bike on a dyno and check the air fuel ratios in closed loop mode, I'll bet they are very lean.  A good tune may eliminate most of your temp concerns.

Jerry

 Give that man a prize.. Edd5  tuned both of  mine and the afr at idle 13.5, takes away a lot of heat...

[roadboss]

I have an '09 FLHTCUSE4, and I have the very same problem with heat that seems to be being discussed here.

I was in stop and go, and it reached the point where I couldn't get the clutch to engage without feathering it excessively.  (Think starting your bike from a stop in third gear...,)  The engine also sounded like a coffee can full of rocks, and stalled a number of times.  Prior, I was also having some major issues with pinging during passing.

The MOCO stated this was a service bulletin issue, and 'remapped' the bike.  The pinging is a little better, although the heat is unchanged, and my seat of the pants dyno indicates that the power has fallen off considerably.

I understand the thought behind remapping, and have been told by an independant garage that I don't need an aftermarket fuel management system.  He says the dyno operator can 'flash' the existing MOCO system with a new and hopefully better map.

Before I get to the next question, is that so?

[HOGMIKE]

I have an '09 FLHTCUSE4, and I have the very same problem with heat that seems to be being discussed here.

I was in stop and go, and it reached the point where I couldn't get the clutch to engage without feathering it excessively.  (Think starting your bike from a stop in third gear...,)  The engine also sounded like a coffee can full of rocks, and stalled a number of times.  Prior, I was also having some major issues with pinging during passing.

The MOCO stated this was a service bulletin issue, and 'remapped' the bike.  The pinging is a little better, although the heat is unchanged, and my seat of the pants dyno indicates that the power has fallen off considerably.

I understand the thought behind remapping, and have been told by an independant garage that I don't need an aftermarket fuel management system.  He says the dyno operator can 'flash' the existing MOCO system with a new and hopefully better map.

Before I get to the next question, is that so?

Yes, using a Harley Super Tuner, or, better yet, TTS Mastertune.

[LarryB]

I have an '09 FLHTCUSE4, and I have the very same problem with heat that seems to be being discussed here.

I was in stop and go, and it reached the point where I couldn't get the clutch to engage without feathering it excessively.  (Think starting your bike from a stop in third gear...,)  The engine also sounded like a coffee can full of rocks, and stalled a number of times.  Prior, I was also having some major issues with pinging during passing.

The MOCO stated this was a service bulletin issue, and 'remapped' the bike.  The pinging is a little better, although the heat is unchanged, and my seat of the pants dyno indicates that the power has fallen off considerably.

I understand the thought behind remapping, and have been told by an independant garage that I don't need an aftermarket fuel management system.  He says the dyno operator can 'flash' the existing MOCO system with a new and hopefully better map.

Before I get to the next question, is that so?

when a tech say's he can Flash in a new map and you don't have a SERT or similar already, just drop your pants now cuz you're going get it.
In order for anyone to install a new map, the needs to something installed/downloaded to allow that. Stock is stock, no adjustments, the phrase Flash is a procedure used by HD through digital tech, proprietary to HD. which really doesn't tune anything
the 110 new was tooo hot, you need to do one of two things. one- go to the Dealer, hand him about 1200.00, he'll do the race tuner thing and put it on the Dyno and you pray he gets it right. or get a TTS Mastertune, gain some knowledge on this forum and DIY. contact Steve George at Fullsac and he can hook you up.

[Heatwave]

when a tech say's he can Flash in a new map and you don't have a SERT or similar already, just drop your pants now cuz you're going get it.
In order for anyone to install a new map, the needs to something installed/downloaded to allow that. Stock is stock, no adjustments, the phrase Flash is a procedure used by HD through digital tech, proprietary to HD. which really doesn't tune anything
the 110 new was tooo hot, you need to do one of two things. one- go to the Dealer, hand him about 1200.00, he'll do the race tuner thing and put it on the Dyno and you pray he gets it right. or get a TTS Mastertune, gain some knowledge on this forum and DIY. contact Steve George at Fullsac and he can hook you up.

Anyone paying $1200 at the dealer for the SuperTuner and a dyno based tune is really get bent over. The MSRP on the SuperTuner is $459. With most of the 20% sales that almost all the dealer's have this time of year, you'll pay $367 (that's what I paid). MasterTune's price for the software alone is $425.

You're going to generally spend the same amount for dyno time (around 4hrs at around $75/hr). Tuning software plus a dyno tune should be under $700 for the SuperTuner and just over $700 for MasterTune. Given the economy, my guess is that in Dec/Jan/Feb you'll see tuning specials that include the labor and software for under $500. Even the most incompetent tuner can adjust a bike's map vs the stock map to improve the performance of a stock bike and have it run cooler.

[Big Sky Fan]

The idle temp management system should kick in around 287°F metal temp measured at the engine temp sensor in the front head.  You can tap into the ECM with the dealer's Digital Tech equipment and read the data from the sensor, but that's not a solution if you want to check while riding.  LarryB offered a good idea with the infrared gauge, which also allows you to check the rear head which tends to run much hotter than the front for obvious reasons, but once again it isn't something you can monitor while riding down the road.  For that, a good direct reading oil temp gauge is your best bet.  Oil temp isn't the same as head temp, and it doesn't change as rapidly, but it does give you a good idea of what's going on.  BTW, the older models had a different system, and some of those didn't fully engage the temp management until the head temps got well over 300°F.  So 287° is relatively conservative compared to what was done in the past.  See attachment.

You should find that as the engine accumulates some miles it should cool down slightly due to decreased friction, but if you want to cool it down enough to improve reliability you will need to have it tuned for a richer mixture.  Addition of a good oil cooler will also help, but it won't do much sitting still or in stop and go traffic.  With a brand new engine you need to avoid idling and heavy traffic.
Such is life with an air cooled dinosaur.  It's a shame, but what you are experiencing is exactly why the air cooled V-twin is fast approaching obsolescence, and also why most other manufacturer's long ago went to water cooling.  

Jerry

This is why I use the Big Sky Fan Kit. I can sit in traffic all day and not overheat. http://bigskyfan.tripod.com/

[SBB]

This is why I use the Big Sky Fan Kit. I can sit in traffic all day and not overheat. http://bigskyfan.tripod.com/

Now there is a bold statement.

  

                  SBB