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[cahdbiker]

I went for a ride today, and as usual I could hear my lifters ticking during my entire ride. It is very irritating. I have been to my dealer twice and they say the sound is normal. I don't agree since the noise cycles, and at about 2200 RPM they are quiet. I have good oil pressure, and I use redline 20-60. Has anyone gotten any satisfaction regarding this issue from their dealer, or did you have to spend your own money to get the lifters to be quiet and if so what did you do. BYW I have the Fulsac Stage one with cat free header and 1.75 baffles (2009 SEUC) and I am happy with the performance, but the mechanical noise is driving me nuts. Any direction or help would be appreciated. I am going to call HD tomorrow and give them some S#&%.CAHDBIKER

I called HD today, April 26, and they told me to get a second opinion from another dealer. If dealer number two agrees that it is normal than they said they won't do anything about it. I also called my mechanic (Bennett's Performance in Long Beach Ca.) and he sayes that the valve train is normally louder in the 110 engine, and with the fairing and lowers it can amplify the noise. Basically he was telling me that if it runs good leave it alone. I trust his judgement, but I still hate the noise. It really takes away some of the fun of riding.  Also I questioned HD about if they were going to retro the noisey fifth gear and they immediately asked me what kind of oil I used and what speed I used 5th gear etc. Sort of telling me not to shift into fifth until at least 55 or 60 which I usually do. They have no plans to retrofit 5th gear.  Any more comments will be appreciated. CAHDBIKER

[Twolanerider]

If he happens not to see your post send a message to Chip (site name SBB).  He dealt with (I think) redundant lifter issues that ended up (again, I think this is right) involving first the MoCo and finally going aftermarket.  He was at least very familiar with the lifter issues on 09s.

[cahdbiker]

If he happens not to see your post send a message to Chip (site name SBB).  He dealt with (I think) redundant lifter issues that ended up (again, I think this is right) involving first the MoCo and finally going aftermarket.  He was at least very familiar with the lifter issues on 09s.

Thanks for the tip. I am familiar with Chip's posts, and I think a friend of mine on the site knows him. I will update after I call HD.CAHDBIKER

[HD Street Performance]

Might be as simple as a lifter swap to the new Woods lifters
Assuming everything else is fine and no interference

[hornhonker]

Might be as simple as a lifter swap to the new Woods lifters
Assuming everything else is fine and no interference

I agree on the Woods lifters but will HD go along with the change from a warranty standpoint ?

[grc]

I agree on the Woods lifters but will HD go along with the change from a warranty standpoint ?

No.  The warranty will only replace the current stuff with more of the same stuff.  They definitely won't pay for aftermarket parts.  You can always ask the dealership to let you pay the difference between the Harley lifters and the aftermarket lifters, assuming they and H-D agree to replace your lifters in the first place.  I wouldn't make that assumption, since H-D has been famous for not approving repairs even when their parts are obviously bad.  With something like this noise issue that hasn't necessarily been determined to be a lifter, odds are they aren't going to agree it's bad unless it has obviously failed, as in a roller coming apart.  I seriously doubt they will remove the lifters and test them all for leak-down rate or disassemble them and check each dimension to the original blueprints.  Ain't gonna happen.

I'm not aware of any proof that all the noise most owners of the 110's have complained about is caused by lifters.  Is someone now saying it's officially a lifter problem?  If so, what evidence is that based on?


Jerry

[DESERTBEAR54]

What year 110 motor are you ref the noisy lifters?

[cahdbiker]

What year 110 motor are you ref the noisy lifters?
[/quote
DESERTBEAR54, My bike is a 09 SEUC (silver). I am just going to live with it until something breaks. Right now I am using Redline 20-60. However, next time I change my oil I am going to use Amsoil 60 WT synthetic. I am currently using it in my 95 Heritage which has an S&S 107. It is running quiet and has good oil pressure,plus it is compatable with Dino oil if you get in a bind and can't get your hands on any synthetic.CAHDBIKER

[HD Street Performance]

I would not say the lifters are defective, however they are a production 96" part. An aftermarket purposely designed tight tolerance replacement like the Woods lifter made by Morel with help from Jessel can help alleviate valvetrain noise caused by big heavy valves and stiffer than production 96" valve springs 135# seat pressure VS 175#.

[hdbrad03]

Could it be a loose valve guide? If I remember SBB had noisey lifter then later a Exhaust Valve stuck in his valve guide. 


 
      Brad

[HD Street Performance]

The exhaust valves seize and if that is the case I would expect rough running as well. Lots of racket then if things are hitting.

[fatboybern]

yeah i have A 09 FLHRC I DID THE SE 110 BUILD USED THE VH PRO HO PIPE AND RACE TUNER LOVE THE POWER DID ALL THE WORK MYSELF MINUS THE MACHINING AND ASSEMBLY OF THE BOTTOM END AND YEAH 2 NOISES THE NOISY VALVE TRAIN AND AND INCONSISTANT KETUCK KETUCK EVERY ONCE AND A WHILE WHEN THE ENGINE IS COLD YOU CAN ALSO HEAR IT UNDER HEAVY LOAD AT LOW RPM ALMOST LIKE PISTON SLAP MENTIONED IT TO THE DEALER AND HE HAD IT ALREADY DIAGNOSED OVER THE PHONE TYPICAL DEALER MENTALITY THEY WILL TELL U ANYTHING TO TRY TO MAKE YOU ACCEPT IT IM A LICENCED AUTO AND HEAVY DUTY TECH I DONT THINK IT IS ALL NORMAL AND AM SURE IT CAN BE RESOLVED WITH SOME TIME AND TEAM EFFORT FROM OTHERS TRYING DIFFERENT THINGS ON THIS FORUM I FEEL EITHER THE PUSHRODS ARE EITHER INNCORRECT LENGHTH  OR THE LIFTERS CAN NOT HANDLE THE HEAVY SPRINGS THATS MY PERSSONEL OPINION HAVENT PULLED THE PUSHROD COVERS YET TO LOOK AND SEE KEEP IN TOUCH

[HD Street Performance]

A few things to consider
The valve springs are at 175# on the seat and those valves are heavy. They need the pressure in my opinion. When I port the heads I use those springs set the pressures. Many great mechanics that may not have a lot of Harley experience don't get the top end in alignment, the top boxes and rocker supports. That can cause issues with improper sweep across the valves and when adjustable pushrods are used they can hit in the tubes. Even when they are lined up properly the retainers can hit the lower boxes unless they are the new revised part. Then the boxes need grinding. Next the cam choice. depending on the intensity of the lift rate they can push the valvetrain, everything not just a single component, into a valve lash situation.
On a side note the new Wood lifters seem to be helping in some cases to quiet them down. I have a customer that is a very sharp methodical type and he used one of the potential noisier grinds with heads that I did, the Wood TW5-6 and he reports it is as quiet as any OEM new bike and quietier than the bike was stock. He did however get everything right and used corrected geometry rockers.
There is no smoking gun here except the known MOCO issues and in many cases the stack of parts makes the issues and the only solution to make them right is to start from the bottom up with a welded and trued crank and a combination of aftermarket and OEM parts installed with detailed blueprinting all the way.

[Crusty]

I'm no motorhead, so I don't know if it is the lifters or what... but my 09 SERRG rattles like crazy at certain RPMs... Being my first HD< I didn't know if it was normal or what. Sounds like this bike/motor might just be known for that type of noise.

[grc]

Don't forget the other favorite excuse from the MoCo and it's dealers; piston slap due to the short piston skirts (or the out-of-round barrels, but they don't talk about that). 

I don't know that any one thing is going to make these engines quiet, and I also don't think you can assume that when one person claims changing lifters in his bike quieted the noise, for instance, that you will have the same results if you also change lifters.  There are too many variables involved, and unless you want to spend limitless amounts of cash chasing the holy grail, you will eventually reach the point where you accept the fact that these engines are noisy.  The CVO103's were relatively noisy compared to the 88's, and the 110's seem to be even noisier than the 103's.  A lot of the theories seem to make sense, like the heavy valves and high pressure valve springs overpowering the stock lifters and oil system, piston slap, thin cylinder walls due to the cheap method of creating the 110 cylinders that are dimensionally unstable and are also unable to effectively dampen noise, etc.   H-D surely isn't going to tell us, assuming they could figure it out, what the answer really is.  Individual owners aren't going to be able to do it either.  Perhaps someone with lots of money and lots of time in a fully instrumented engine dynomometer lab could in fact trace all the various noise sources and assign values to each, such as 30% valve train, 20% piston slap, etc., but I don't know anyone who is likely to volunteer to do this.

The secret, IMHO, is to figure out what really is "normal" for this particular engine, and then learn to live with the "normal" sounds and only worry about the "abnormal" stuff that will eventually surface.  Next time you decide to buy a motorcycle, remember all this stuff and all the lack of help you received from the MoCo and your dealer, and then remember that old adage about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. 


Jerry