Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Chains]

Did I hear that each and every employee of HD even if laid of gets a check for $12,000 since the vote passed?  If that is true does that mean a passing vote was for sale for 12 K per member?

[FNGw/08SERK]

Did I hear that each and every employee of HD even if laid of gets a check for $12,000 since the vote passed?  If that is true does that mean a passing vote was for sale for 12 K per member?

Not an uncommon practice. When those that are laid off are part of the voting block and eligible for the bonus it easy to see the scales are tipped.

[starvin]

Did I hear that each and every employee of HD even if laid of gets a check for $12,000 since the vote passed?  If that is true does that mean a passing vote was for sale for 12 K per member?

NO, the way i read it ONLY the employees laid off will get the 12,000 and thats because they are waiving their right to be recalled. So they will be replaced by temp. (no benefits low pay) workers. So the 12,000 which will be about 7,000 after taxes will be their severance pay and will need to last them until they find a new job.

[SBB]

It's always managements fault when a company fails, just as it's always managements achievement when a company succeeds.  The management of a company establishes the objectives, plans the strategy and executes the strategy of the company.  Management hires all employees and contractors and is responsible for the supervision and performance of the employees and contractors.  Bottom line is it's managements job to hire qualified employees, train the employees, communicate with the employees, motivate the employees, provide the employees a safe work environment and compensate the employees with competitive wages and benefits.   Employees have the obligation to perform the job they are trained for and paid to do  - to the best of their ability....period.



When management goes to the employees of a company and demands reductions in compensation and benefits  - and when they go to the local governing bodies demanding incentives because they truly need these contributions in order to remain profitable and viable, it is because management (current or prior) has done their job poorly and mismanaged the company thru either poor long term planning, poor strategic planning or poor execution of their strategic plan.[/b] [/size]

Thank you Scott.
I'm glad someone has made it clear why the Motor Company is in the position they are in.

 

SBB

[Chains]

Or in some cases lack of long term planning, little or no strategic planning 

[Chains]

Not an uncommon practice. When those that are laid off are part of the voting block and eligible for the bonus it easy to see the scales are tipped.

Here is an section from a Milwaukee News Paper "The Milwaukee contract includes one-time lump-sum payments of $12,000, left over from a previous grievance settlement, which go to all active employees and to laid-off workers who were eligible to be called back.

A number of those laid-off workers voted yes, citing the money as a big factor.

"I was laid off, I had no chance of being called back so yeah, I wanted the $12,000," said Greg Kuehn, 49, a machinist who has since found work at a printing company. "If I still worked there, though, I would have voted no"

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7199165.html

[sadunbar]

Here is an section from a Milwaukee News Paper "The Milwaukee contract includes one-time lump-sum payments of $12,000, left over from a previous grievance settlement, which go to all active employees and to laid-off workers who were eligible to be called back.

A number of those laid-off workers voted yes, citing the money as a big factor.

"I was laid off, I had no chance of being called back so yeah, I wanted the $12,000," said Greg Kuehn, 49, a machinist who has since found work at a printing company. "If I still worked there, though, I would have voted no"

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7199165.html

"by whatever means available"...

[Chains]

This whole deal is bad for all concerned, workers, management, stockholders but perhaps most of all loyal customers who have forever put their faith in HD and now may have to be leery of the products made by a very angry workforce, if things were not bad enough prior to the threat of no jobs in Milwaukee. 

Hope it plays out well for all concerned.

[CVORick]

While on my ride I took the tour at the York plant.  Yeah, I know it was not in Wisconsin, but they were spending a lot of money rebuilding/remodeling the plant.  Guess they don't have any "MANAGEMENT" issues there.  Just glad I only bought the bike and not the stock.  No, I don't need investment lessons.  One kick in the wallet was enough.  Did go through West Virginia, but it was really raining then.  Hope you guys had a "dry" time at the GTG.

[harley56]

serghaven, Last thursday Sept 9th. I went for a ride to Santa Barbara, Ca.  HD( about 65 miles from where I live in Simi Valley, CA.),  because I heard a rumor that they were closing. I couldn't believe it because they have been in operation for many many years, and actually have a shop in the  city of Santa Barbara, and another a little south near Carpenteria Ca. right on the coast. I have a dealership about 6 miles from my house and two other dealerships about 14 miles from my house in opposite directions.  I asked one of the salespeople at Santa Barbara Ca. why they were closing and he said they were doing great business, but one of the owner's wanted out and HD refused to approve other investors who wanted in. He went on to say that HD wants to close 10 dealerships in Ca. My local dealership is doing great and their inventory is moving well ( I go in there every week and I can see what has sold and what is still sitting there, they did have a purple Fat Boy that sat their for about 4 months) The people working there are courteous, very knowledgeable, always call you by your name and my experience there has been great before and after I bought my 09SEUC which I got in August of 08. We have a lot of dealerships in the Los Angeles area, but if the salesperson was telling me the truth why would they want to close a very longterm well established shop with a good reputation? Has anyone else heard of anthing like this in your area? CAHDBIKER

Harley is not attempting to close longterm well established dealerships with a good reputation.  They are attempting to close dealerships that no longer have a market that can sustain their dealership.  They have told the dealers this for quite some time now.  These conditions exist right now in areas of California.
Most likely Santa Barbara buyers/investors were not approved because they would be absentee owners, frowned upon by Harley, or the debt they were going to take on could not be supported by the business. 

[comfortablynumb]

The Union sits down with the Company and mutual negotiations usually lead to an AGREEMENT between the parties. When the profit margin goes south and Management has no idea how to make the product more desirable to the consumer, it takes the easy way out and gives the Union an ultimatum. You see the Union give back dollars and benefits in concessions in exchange for the Company giving back....er, sorry I missed that part. If the million dollar management was worth their salary, which they also negotiated and agreed to with the Company, should they not have been aware of a pending downturn in business and done something proactively to compensate? If they didn't, are they not doing their job as agreed? What happens when a normal person doesn't do his job? He gets sh*tcanned and doesn't walk away with a multimillion dolar bonus for being incompetent. I work for a company that has been feeding us the same crap for 12 years. When I asked them at a "skip-level" meeting, how they can justify paying out millions in salary and bonus/compensations to Executives that have been unable to turn a profit for 12 years. The standard answer is that they have to offer that much in order to get the quality Executive interested in the position. And they say it with a straight face. They have not improved the product, or made it more desirable to the consumer. They have laid off over 110,000 employees, Management and Union, and by lowering the overhead and using some creative accounting, they keep the cost to revenue numbers a little closer. It has nothing at all to do with the product. Welcome to American Business 101. HD will survive. After the Executive vultures finish cutting the meat off the bones, it will be sold like every other American icon.

[FLSTFI Dave]

I think its just more scare tactics to lower the workers wages without cutting management wages.

Seems it is not about lower wages, it is about no pay raises for a few years.  Remember Harley has cut way back on production due to way less sales the last two years.

[FLSTFI Dave]

When it comes right down to it, most companies don't give a damn about their workers...no matter how many years they've slaved so that the execs could live extremely well.  While the money is flowing like it'll never end , everything is fine, but when things get a little tough (and Harley among others should have forseen this coming) they quickly forget WHO is responsible for their success.  I'm no genius by any means, but Ray Charles could see that.  I sincerely think that we're going to have to get used to an entire different way of life in this country.

I agree to a point, but it seems most the country did not see this economic mess coming, or sales falling very flat.  Harley sales are way down, so are sales of most other non esentials.  Boating industry has been hit much harder, and many of those companies just closed their doors.

In a mess like this every one has to give a little, the worker and the management, if you want to keep some employed.

My industry has been hard hit by the drilling ban.  My company has 4 new drill ships not working because of it.  They are trying to find work for us out side the USA due to the ban we can not work here.  Thank God they are still paying us our wages and finding BS work for us to do.  We are non union, if we were Union I would not be working because the Union would not allow an Electronics tech to paint, and clean all day.

[Hotrod50]

The management of a publicly held compamy has only one responsibility-Maximize stockholder value.  the stockholders are the owners of the company and they are the people management has to answer to.  You can't blame Harley managment for taking government money when the Obama administration is throwing it all around.  Harley mangement would be derelict in their responsibilities if they didn't.  And I'm tired of hearing union members in general claim they have a "right" to share in the profits of a company.  They weren't there risking their life savings or putting their futures on the line in a number of cases in order to start a company.  With the risks come the rewards.  Workers agreed to a contract for a certain number of years at alot of companies, and most of them don't want anything longer than 2 or 3 years.  When economic conditions change, what's wrong with everybody sacrificing.  Why do wages only go up, even in bad times.  Here in Wichita, Spirit Aerosystems (formerly Boeing) shoved a 10 year contract down the unions throat.  Was it a good decision on either side?--I don't know.  Only time will tell.   Cessna employees vote Saturday on a similar contract.  I think they're going to turn it down and strike.  Usually the strike lasts just past the break even point of where the company will give the employees what they want, but because they were off 6-8 weeks, the company still spends less money overall.  Kind of funny.  For years around here the aircraft workers had great health insurance, at no cost.  I remember about 6 years ago or so when Boeing told the union that the workers were going to have to start paying 25 % of the premium cost.  They were all screaming like a stuck pig about how they were being screwed and they were gonna strike over it.  I told them they needed a dose of reality, most of the real world considered it to be a good perk if a company offered to pay half of your premium.  They were so spoiled.  Okay, I know this rant is gonna get me in trouble--fire away!!

[comfortablynumb]

I think any sacrifices should be mutual. Today's CEOs are not the same ones that took the chances way back then and when they fail they just move on. When you look at the Board of Directors of most Fortune 100 corporations, you'll notice just how many Boards some are on. It's not talent IMHO, it's convenience. Who you know not what you know.