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[hdbrad03]

I feel the MOCO holds a great deal of the BLAME here. I for one do not believe that there are many Delearships that could bore and change valve guides properly. The do it as cheap as possible MOCO should have replaced the heads in the first place. I also agree the Dealer should have told Shortdog that they applied the wrong heads. Shortdog I would also be looking at my frame paint for damage if the chipped up the paint on the engine what else was damaged? 

 
     Brad

[grc]

I have read the original post a couple of times, where does it say the service manager had any knowledge of this? The tech admitted he did it, and the service manager the next day ordered the new heads. It is extremely plausible that the technician was having so many problems that he pulled the swap without any knowledge by the service manager. That being said, after the fix, I would go to the general manager or dealer principle with the information and let him handle the situation.

Matt, if you read it again you'll see that the new head wasn't ordered until after Shortdog confronted the service manager.  It doesn't sound like the tech or the service manager intended to replace the head until confronted.  If I'm wrong on that point, and they really did intend to replace it, why didn't they say anything to Shortdog when he picked up the bike, and why wasn't the head already ordered before he went back to talk to the service manager?

Several good points have been made, one of which is the idea that before raising too much of a stink it might be a good idea to get the repair completed properly.  I've seen similar situations where a complaint to the big boss didn't result in the action expected.  For instance, I've seen customers who complained too much get shown to the door, or placed on a "list" for a service appointment that never materialized, or had various other retaliatory things done.  For all you know, the guy who screwed the pooch could be the son of the dealer, or some other protected person like the dealer's trophy wife's deadbeat brother.  Get the bike fixed first, then worry about getting even (or not). 


Jerry

[04se103]

Plan and Simple Piss Poor Service

[HmanTJ]

I would definitely NOT tolerate the behavior Shortdog received from this dealer's Service Dept. I recently posted a much too long story of a GOOD experience I had with my local dealership in the "Noisy Lifters" thread. Sorry for the problems you are having. Hope you realize you only have to put up with what you let them get away with.

[shortdog]

Gentlemen,
Thanks for the input. Wow! Some of us are downright brutal. The SM did take total responsibility for this event. The day I picked up the bike he was extremely busy and the service writer had no knowledge of the situation. To backtrack just a little, my original quest in this ongoing drama was a new motor. I have the extended service plan and have already gotten my money's worth from that. I place more of the blame for the current situation on the MoCo for trying to force this shop into work above their capabilities. I will wait for the new heads to be installed and go from there. I really feel the SM made a serious mistake in judgement brought on by panic at the thought of telling me that they could not fix my heads. He is under serious pressure from the Managing Partner to move bike in and out. In previous matters he has willingly gone to bat for me with the MoCo to get warranty work done.
My previous life career was in the road construction where I was forced by management to make serious decisions on the fly that may not always have been proper or correct. The one's I got away with were never mentioned. The one's where I got caught I took responsibility for my actions and moved on. This seems to be where we are now with the SM. I am inclined at this point to forgive, but I will never forget.
By the way close to 600 miles in intense heat and no signs of oil consumption with the mystery heads!
Thanks again for the input,
Shortdog

[Wanna ride]

This whole deal just stinks. Let us know how it all plays out.

But just for good documentation and CYA, grab your digital camera and take several pics of these questionable heads (and the drilled/tapped area) installed in your bike. Just in case you need that ammo later, as I'm sure you're aware... a paper trail can disappear.

[shortdog]

Gentlemen,
Don't know and don't care how SM worked it out, but new heads supposed to arrive today. Installation next week!
BTW "mystery heads" have shown no signs of using oil at 1,000 miles. If they can install the new ones correctly I should be good to go for at least 7,000 miles.
That seemed to be the time the seals kept going out on the original heads. Maybe MoCo resolved issues and I won't have to go through this ordeal again?
Thanks again for your input,
Shortdog

[HD Street Performance]

That seemed to be the time the seals kept going out on the original heads

They kept putting in improved seals, updates, which is a good thing but they have increased the clearance between the stem and guide which will kill any seal and is not too fine on seats and noise either

[skreminegul07]

Gentlemen,
Thanks for the input. Wow! Some of us are downright brutal. The SM did take total responsibility for this event. The day I picked up the bike he was extremely busy and the service writer had no knowledge of the situation. To backtrack just a little, my original quest in this ongoing drama was a new motor. I have the extended service plan and have already gotten my money's worth from that. I place more of the blame for the current situation on the MoCo for trying to force this shop into work above their capabilities. I will wait for the new heads to be installed and go from there. I really feel the SM made a serious mistake in judgement brought on by panic at the thought of telling me that they could not fix my heads. He is under serious pressure from the Managing Partner to move bike in and out. In previous matters he has willingly gone to bat for me with the MoCo to get warranty work done.
My previous life career was in the road construction where I was forced by management to make serious decisions on the fly that may not always have been proper or correct. The one's I got away with were never mentioned. The one's where I got caught I took responsibility for my actions and moved on. This seems to be where we are now with the SM. I am inclined at this point to forgive, but I will never forget.
By the way close to 600 miles in intense heat and no signs of oil consumption with the mystery heads!
Thanks again for the input,
Shortdog

Can you tell me which bridges you may have built in New England?  I have a few suspects.

[shortdog]

No bridges,only roadways,airport taxiways and parking lots. Mostly asphalt paving.

[shortdog]

Well Guys,
Picked up the bike a week ago. Due to other matters did not ride much over the weekend. Took a short ride Monday and could not believe the racket coming from the rocker boxes. When they installed the new heads they installed new valves but used my original springs, retainers, rocker arms,pushrods and lifters.
I have read several posts on this forum about noisy top ends and just re-read some of them to try to get an idea of how to approach this situation.
Tuesday I took a longer ride of about 100 miles and went to the shop. Service writer tried to convince me the noise is "normal". SM says possibly "trash in a lifter" which begs the question where did that come from? Was told to ride it for a while as they did not want chase down noises! Rode another 200 miles yesterday and today. Had two different mechanics listen and both agreed this sound is past normal 110 noises. The ticking that starts at about 1800 rpm is
barely noticeable in neutral. When riding down the road it becomes so loud and pronounced it actually echoes off buildings and trees!
Back to the dealership tomorrow to give the Service Department an opportunity to blow me off again. Next step words with the Managing Partner and Owner, then on to the MoCo.
Thanks again for letting me vent,
Shortdog
P.S. The noise is very dry sounding. Kind of like a Telegrah key under stress.

[HD Street Performance]

This story has holes sorry to say. No blame on you. You're the victim.
New valves??? The HD program heads come complete ready to bolt on. So if there are "new valves" what about the guides and what were these new valves set to, protrusion that is? HD seldom condones dealer installed valves and / or new guides and most dealers don't have the tools or knowledge to perform that work. So who did the work?
There are many little assembly tricks too.
Piston to valve interference is a possibility by the way you describe the noise.

[Unbalanced]

Shortdog,

Sorry I am not sure about the year, but the 07's the rocker boxes were not clearanced.  if they moved at all during assembly you could have hitting many folks were getting a lot of ticking from ill clearanced rocker boxes.  Since then they released new rockerboxes that had enough clearancing from the mothership of denial.  There is probably some ident marks in your rocker boxes if that is the culprit causing the noise.  Check around the intake should be able to put a  zip tie and go around the seat of the spring  .060 clearance and have the zip tie not hit.   have you been able to identify if it is in both cylinders or just one?   typically the piston slap has been around 2500 - 3200 as where it was really noticiable on my rides.

One other thought is the possibility of a lifter going bad.   Do you have any play in the pushrods ?

Best or luck sucks to be going through this.

[1sharprdkg]

Hey Shortdog what makes you think that this is the first and only time that you have been screwed, deep,long and hard by this dealership... I bet that you are not the only customer they have been screwing over. You should throw them under the bus! There is no excuse for fraud. I would never trust them again, not to mention never touch my bike. Dude they are wrong on so many levels it is not even funny!!!! Good Luck with your nightmare!     

[shortdog]

Update:
Initial denial from SM. Noise is normal. Managing partner happened to ask if I was happy. That allowed me to express my displeasure with these new heads without referencing original problem. SM. rode bike (noise is greatly enhanced under load) and took it into dyno room to listen with stethoscope. He claims to have narrowed sound to rear head. He had me convinced to ride it a while longer. Managing partner asked me about resolution and I told him and went into the store. As I proceeded back by his office he called me in with the SM. He basically told the SM to open the boxes back up and find the noise. He said that if the noise was not there before it should not be there now! Have an appointment for Tuesday.
The actual conversations this morning have strengthened my resolve to seek another location for future work on my ride if this ever gets resolved.
My wife has an 08 also(the black one) manufactured late spring of 08. No issues whatsoever with hers. SM made statement noise from mine is normal and I responded with "Does this mean the other one is abnormal?" He then went to the story of the stars being in alignment, day of manufacture and assembly,
etc., etc. Managing partner finally told him to fix it because after 400 miles it won't fix itself and don't worry about MoCo warranty he would eat the cost himself. Maybe good cop bad cop but it sounds like progress.