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[Racerdj]

Sounds like it's moving your way!! Continued good luck!

[Hawg]

I will be on my way to Sturgis in a week as well, looks like there will be at least 2 Spiced rums there. 

[Fired00d]

here is the update as of today. looks like they are sending new paperwork out for me to sign. i haven't seen the figures so we will see but they doctored the numbers to make it come out and my payment will go down. guess we will see. i have since installed the saddle bag latch inserts (the dental floss is the way to go)! i also got my floor board extensions and fairing bags installed. hope to have my boom cans installed before i leave for sturgis in a week!!!

Make sure you have a lawyer look at this "new paperwork" so you are protected.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Fatboy]

Make sure you have a lawyer look at this "new paperwork" so you are protected.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Billy...Dood just gave you the best advise yet.

I'd stop spending on the chrome trinkets for a bit and put a few $$$ towards making sure you've CYA here.......

Not sure why they need "new" paperwork or how it will be to your benefit?

Watch your interest rate closely they may take it up and try to make a few more dollars off the bank in yield spread to cover the $3k difference.

[billyo2222]

Thanks guys for the input and I have a friend who is a real stud lawyer here who is going to take a peek at the papers.  I think all they are doing is upping the sales price and upping the trade which just shows more money down and taking care of the 10% down.

[KaseyKahnefan]

So what they are doing is raising the sales price...Then increasing your trade so now you will pay the $3000 only finance it, I bet they add a few months to the contract so your payment is lower.....This equals you paying their $3000 over a longer time so now you are paying more in interest. Like I said The Original Contract is binding you should not pay a dime more for total due (amount financed) and you should not pay for any longer term. The only reason they have to "Doctor the numbers" is to surgically remove more money from you wallet!
If you ask me they are using the "lower payment" to blind you to the real cost of the deal. If you don't sign another contract and keep the one you have they are locked into it. The only way they can get you a lower payment is to stretch the term longer (and most likely raise the interest rate). Keep what you have and tell them to live with the original deal. AGAIN>>>>Do not give up your copy of the original contract and make them live by it. Don't get caught up in mods and the I have to have it.....You already DO! The only way the "Doctor" job works is if they sell it at the same price and raise your trade value by $3000. Otherwise all you say is I have a deal in writing......end of story! Good Luck, and do not trust them! Have your lawyer Call them.......

[billyo2222]

The only reason I am thinking about signing the deal is because I still feel like I owe the money. I know they screwed up but I feel like I am ripping them off! Am I thinking the wrong way? Should I just keep the deal and say screw it or should I consider this deal and pay the down payment just in payments over the life of the loan? Man I am really perplexed on this one! I know I just want to keep the deal and save some dough, but I feel like a thief.  Opinions on this new deal??? Anyone? ??

[KaseyKahnefan]

The only reason I am thinking about signing the deal is because I still feel like I owe the money. I know they screwed up but I feel like I am ripping them off! Am I thinking the wrong way? Should I just keep the deal and say screw it or should I consider this deal and pay the down payment just in payments over the life of the loan? Man I am really perplexed on this one! I know I just want to keep the deal and save some dough, but I feel like a thief.  Opinions on this new deal??? Anyone? ??

IMOH It is you who is getting ripped off. They made you a deal, all the numbers were right there on the paper, it's not like you talked about one price and then the paperwork was done and the printed the wrong numbers on the papers...right? That would be a mistake. Would you have bought it for $3000 more if that was the original deal?...I doubt it! This is an old trick, send it home then call them back and say oops..you owe us more money, playing on the guys pride and emotions, knowing he will keep it for more money.....This is illegal...period. Call you states attorney General consumer affairs and give them the details and see what they tell you. This dealer knew that 2011's were just around the corner and wanted it gone off their floor so they made you a deal to get it gone and now are trying to get full MSRP...BS! They are the thieves, treat them that way! YOU DON'T OWE THEM ANY MORE THAN WHAT THEY TOLD YOU YOU OWED THE DAY YOU RODE HER HOME. Consumer laws says that if you are refused credit you have the right to know why....tell the dealer you want to talk with the finance company that is requiring the $3000 more....bet they won't give you the contact information.......It's clear to me they are running a scam on you! Good luck brother, keep your hand on your wallet! 

[hdnik]

Thanks guys for the input and I have a friend who is a real stud lawyer here who is going to take a peek at the papers.  I think all they are doing is upping the sales price and upping the trade which just shows more money down and taking care of the 10% down.

Billy... don't let these replies freek you out... you're doing fine. Everyone needs to take a breath. The dealer is trying to let you win here!

So if I'm reading you right they are upping the Sale price by 3K and upping the trade by 3k. If that's the case you need not worry, the difference is the same... the tax would be the same, so the finance total will be the same and if the rate is the same... then the payment will be the same. It's the same deal for you!! Frankly they could just change their ACV (actual cash value) on the trade internally and get the same result because they are getting the same amount of cash from the banks advance... but it may be they need to show the bank you have more into the deal on paper...Looks like all you are doing is signing a new agreement so that the bank sees more equity in the deal... and frankly that has no impact on you... you won buddy!!

Example for those who are doubting.... 30000 - 15000 trade = 15000 balance...... likewise 33000 - 18000 trade is 15000 balance, but now he has 18 grand into the deal intead of 15k. It's all smoke and mirrors but if the bank buys it who cares... billy is fine and keeps his bike... the dealer ate the whole thing!!!

 

[Robmay]

So what they are doing is raising the sales price...Then increasing your trade so now you will pay the $3000 only finance it, I bet they add a few months to the contract so your payment is lower.....This equals you paying their $3000 over a longer time so now you are paying more in interest. Like I said The Original Contract is binding you should not pay a dime more for total due (amount financed) and you should not pay for any longer term. The only reason they have to "Doctor the numbers" is to surgically remove more money from you wallet!
If you ask me they are using the "lower payment" to blind you to the real cost of the deal. If you don't sign another contract and keep the one you have they are locked into it. The only way they can get you a lower payment is to stretch the term longer (and most likely raise the interest rate). Keep what you have and tell them to live with the original deal. AGAIN>>>>Do not give up your copy of the original contract and make them live by it. Don't get caught up in mods and the I have to have it.....You already DO! The only way the "Doctor" job works is if they sell it at the same price and raise your trade value by $3000. Otherwise all you say is I have a deal in writing......end of story! Good Luck, and do not trust them! Have your lawyer Call them.......

I was thinking the exact thing. Can't raise the price on the bike (even with more trade value, a wash) and make the payment lower without adding months to the agreement. Maybe I am reading this whole thing wrong. If they had you sign the papers for x amount of dollars and x amount of payment for x amount of months with no mention of a down payment....you don't owe them anything. UNLESS the amount financed on the original contract was 3k less then what you agreed on when you sealed the deal (meaning somehow the deal was typed up with the bottom line price after the 10% down as the original price and everyone involved somehow overlooked it - not likely)

[Robmay]

Billy... don't let these replies freek you out... you're doing fine. Everyone needs to take a breath. The dealer is trying to let you win here!

So if I'm reading you right they are upping the Sale price by 3K and upping the trade by 3k. If that's the case you need not worry, the difference is the same... the tax would be the same, so the finance total will be the same and if the rate is the same... then the payment will be the same. It's the same deal for you!! Frankly they could just change their ACV (actual cash value) on the trade internally and get the same result because they are getting the same amount of cash from the banks advance... but it may be they need to show the bank you have more into the deal on paper...Looks like all you are doing is signing a new agreement so that the bank sees more equity in the deal... and frankly that has no impact on you... you won buddy!!

Example for those who are doubting.... 30000 - 15000 trade = 15000 balance...... likewise 33000 - 18000 trade is 15000 balance, but now he has 18 grand into the deal intead of 15k. It's all smoke and mirrors but if the bank buys it who cares... billy is fine and keeps his bike... the dealer ate the whole thing!!!

 

But he said the payment was actually going down. 

[Twolanerider]

If the bike is already licensed/titled they can't change the purchase price.  It's already recorded and taxed.  Trying to do so after the fact to either square some prior error or to steal some extra cash is really irrelevant.  It's a recorded contract with sales tax and perhaps property tax implications.  Some states figure property tax based on purchase price.  So if purchase price is now larger so might be the taxes each year.

Do as you please; obviously.  But if you've got a finalized deal/contract, were given an MSO and title app, sent those to your state and paid taxes accordingly I'd be very reluctant to sign new paperwork after the fact.  Sounds like a way to raise the eyebrows of a state's DMV or Department of Revenue unnecessarily.

[Fatboy]

Thanks guys for the input and I have a friend who is a real stud lawyer here who is going to take a peek at the papers.  I think all they are doing is upping the sales price and upping the trade which just shows more money down and taking care of the 10% down.

======================================================


I was a Loan Officer in the Mortgage industry for 5 years and if we found someone "inflating" values or falsifying numbers or manipulating loan documents the loan would be declined for being fraudulent.

And those involved would be subject to consequences should the lender decide to persue the matter.

As was noted earlier they still made $3k (original gross was ~$6k) on the bike itself, more money on arranging your financing and even more money if you bought parts and paid any labor from them or added in any  extended warranties. Not to mention the profit they will make off your trade-in.

No need for you to feel guilty....they still made a good deal of money here and they are a long long way from being out of pocket. And now one could interpret they have asked you to commit fraud by signing the doctored loan documents....hmmm. IMHO your being played here...LET THE STUD LAWYER HANDLE ALL DIALOG FROM HERE OUT.

Have fun and be safe in Sturgis!

[Hawg]

I agree with Fatboy, let your lawyer handle this.   Something stinks about the whole thing, what would happen if the lender found the deal to be fraudulent? Would you get to keep the bike? Honestly is alway's the best policy and so far you are maintaining that, don't change.

[sadunbar]

If the bike is already licensed/titled they can't change the purchase price.  It's already recorded and taxed.  Trying to do so after the fact to either square some prior error or to steal some extra cash is really irrelevant.  It's a recorded contract with sales tax and perhaps property tax implications.  Some states figure property tax based on purchase price.  So if purchase price is now larger so might be the taxes each year.

Do as you please; obviously.  But if you've got a finalized deal/contract, were given an MSO and title app, sent those to your state and paid taxes accordingly I'd be very reluctant to sign new paperwork after the fact.  Sounds like a way to raise the eyebrows of a state's DMV or Department of Revenue unnecessarily.

I'd be more concerned about involving myself in some type of fraud than anything at this point.  Changing the purchase contract after it's been recorded and taxed to make the numbers look like something they are not (or were not) for the benefit of the dealership sounds illegal to me.  If nothing is changing (nothing that will change your cost), than what's the point of signing a new contract?  The only point in new paperwork is between them and their lender.  Do you suppose their lender would be interested to know the dealer was going to manipulate the numbers on the paperwork to show more equity in the bike than the deal you originally made?  You have bought the bike.  If they made a mistake...it's unfortunate for them...but it's a done deal.

You sound like an exceedingly honest person...  Don't let their mistake and your honesty and good will drag you into potential legal problem.