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[Beemer]

Just got off the phone with Roxanne at HD Customer Service phone #1 (414)-343-4056

Let me start in the beginning...

A few months after getting my 09 SERG, I started having my starter kick out and reengage with the associated grinding during starting.  At first this only happened on the first start of the day and then it progressed to where it happened on virtually every start.

The dealer checked the ACRs and they were on and finally were told by HD Tech Services to replace the gear on the starter.

The problem persisted and then the paint started peeling off the starter so the dealer was directed by Tech Services to disassemble the starter to repaint the part.  A week later the dealer calls me and says they can't get the paint to match/stick and ask if I'd mind if they just replaced the starter with a new one...I happily agreed!

A month or two goes by and I'm waiting at a light with the bike in neutral and all hell breaks loose inside the primary!  I take it to the dealer and they diagnose as my compensator bolt came loose.  Replaced the bolt and all is well...for a while.

Mind you, I'm still having occasional starter kickback throughout but it never duplicates for the tech when I have the bike there.

Finally, last Sept, the primary starts "growling" giving me concern and I take the bike in again...the dealership's lead tech acknowledges the noise and they pull the primary to investigate.

They find that the main bearing from the clutch shaft into the tranny is virtually gone!  They end up replacing the bearing, clutch basket, primary chain and after me pushing them to look at the compensator, it as well.

Its my opinion that the OE compensator is the root of all the previous problems and I asked if they were going to replace it with the new Screamin Eagle Compensator used on the 2010 CVOs and all bikes in 2011.  Dealer called Tech services and was told they could only authorize the (inferior) OE part.  

I called HD Cust Svc and talked to "John" he agreed with me on my thinking but said their policy wouldn't authorize the new SE comp.  I asked to go up the chain of command and talked to his supervisor "Carol".  I informed her how they'd be paying to replace it again further down the road and they could save a$$ pain all around if they'd just put the improved part in the bike but they stuck to their guns...despite logic, she refused to authorize the SE Comp.

The last few weeks the kickback has gotten worse.  I've got less than 1K miles on the bike since last Sept and its kicking back up to three times before firing up...and on subsequent starts during the day.

Today I call HD Customer service to inform "Roxanne" of the repeat problem and citing the previous repairs, request they replace the compensator with the improved design SE part.   She tells me that policy stated they replace with the OE part.  I expected this and asked to speak to a Supervisor...she says her supervisor "Carol" is not at her desk but she'll ask "John"...she comes back and says (surprise) they cannot authorize the SE Comp.

I ask where up the chain the decision can be made to change or make exception to policy...pause...she gives me "we can't help you today".  I say that I'd like to hear this from higher up and she says "the answer will be the same"...I say, I'd like to speak with "Carol"..."she's not at her desk"...can you have her call me when she comes in?..."I'll tell her you called"...can you have her call me?..."the answer will be the same"... and 'so, you speak for your supervisors?  She goes into this broken record repetition of "we can't help you today" and exasperated, I ask if they could help me tomorrow..."we're closed"...how about Monday..."the answer will be the same, is there anything else we can help you with today"?  I said no and hung up.    

I'm wondering if they receive awards from Honda, BMW and the rest for their above & beyond efforts in bike sales!

[sblade1948]

A friend had same problem. They found this.

[Keats]

I see it as 2 different issues here.
solving a problem and who is going to pay for it. (and of course I think HD should pay for it)

Do you really believe the SE part will solve the problem?
and if you do, the only issue is who is going to pay for the part.

I am not taking HD side, so do not interrupt my suggestion as being right.
Have dealer look up cost of reg part and se part and pay the difference.
This is a way the Dealer has a hard time arguing a reasonable position. (of course the dealer ends up with a part on his shelf that he neither needs or wants)
I have done this several times and my dealer has been reasonable.

I do not think this is the way a good company would handles it's best customers, but it is better than nothing.

[Beemer]

Keats,

That's what the dealer offered last time but they misquoted the difference in price at over $200.  I stood on principal and said no thanks, I'll let the MoCo keep paying to tear into it every time it repeats.

I called today and got a price difference of about $140.

I'll most likely do it...just like in prison...bury my face in the pillow and take it like a man.

[Keats]

It is not right or fun,
but life goes on.

life is to short to be messing with little chit like this

I agree with the principle part, but I also lost many more dollars and time on the same concept.

Business man owes me $15k and he tells me he does not have it, offers me his Truck (worth about $8K)

I do not want his truck, I want my money, so i go after him (legally)

If I had not been so stubborn I would have had at least his truck instead of a GOOSE egg.

Some lessons are better learned early.

[Beemer]

Yeah, someone else here said that each time it (kickback) happens, its like taking a hammer to the crank. 

I absolutely love this bike and would like to keep it until I can't ride anymore...hopefully at least 20 more years! 

I'm afraid if this keeps up, there will be other collateral issues down the road...maybe after the MoCo is bankrupt.

[Keats]

Yeah, someone else here said that each time it (kickback) happens, its like taking a hammer to the crank. 

I absolutely love this bike and would like to keep it until I can't ride anymore...hopefully at least 20 more years! 

I'm afraid if this keeps up, there will be other collateral issues down the road...maybe after the MoCo is bankrupt.

They may be right, but I really do not believe it.

I have a similar thing happen and have gone through 2 starters.
I think the starter stalls (clutch slips) on the up stroke (too much torque) and I get an ignition once in a while before top dead center and the clutch on the starter will not keep the engine moving. The consequence is a backfire through the throttle body and a plume of white smoke.
(awfully impressive in front of metrics)
Some very disturbing noises.
This seems to only happen with a cold engine. (when warm this never happens)
To stop this I get off the starter quickly if it does not start in 1 revolution.

It does harm the starter and or clutch, but the crank?
That would be hard to believe unless damage is done by moving engine the wrong direction.
Cranks are made to with stand the ignition of a chamber, just not sure if direction really matters.

[Billy]

I had the same problem it took 2 years for the bike to finally kick back for the tech . When it did he said definitely the Compensator. It cost be 75.00 to upgrade to SE comp. Now it starts great , shifts better and better of the line. It was a dog before, I had to slip the clutch allot to start now it just goes.  Hope this helps. Billy

[SBB]

Keats,

That's what the dealer offered last time but they misquoted the difference in price at over $200.  I stood on principal and said no thanks, I'll let the MoCo keep paying to tear into it every time it repeats.

I called today and got a price difference of about $140.

I'll most likely do it...just like in prison...bury my face in the pillow and take it like a man.

Beemer

You have 2 issues.

1)  As far as working with you, your dealer sucks. You can call it the motor company but your dealer has flexibility to change it and has chosen to not.
2)  You state you like the bike, then fix it. Maybe someone on the site has a SE comp you could buy cheaply but regardless fix it and move on.

This site is a great place to vent. But it's your choice in this matter, vent or fix it and ride.
You know the problem, you know the solution, we all know life's not fair.
Fix it and ride.

SBB

[cvobiker]

I'm starting to wonder,,, if a Harley didn't break as much as they do,,, We would all be bored as hell and out of our minds... My wife tells me,, when im not out toying around with our bikes in the garage im a grumpy as hell old man... gesh,,,, Personally i look forward to fixing something different on these bikes,....(i will say it's not always fun to foot the bill on some o this stuff)  Anyone Else ??  

[grc]

When I was a younger and more tolerant person, I also enjoyed working on my vehicles.  In fact, it wasn't uncommon to find me spending the first weekend with a new car or bike tearing all sorts of stuff apart to see how it worked and/or improve on the fit and function of various parts.  I even made repairs to some of those cars that would have been covered under warranty, rather than take the time to return to the dealer.  However, after more than 40 years of that sort of thing I've gotten to the point that I want a product, any product, that I buy to work the way it should right out of the box and to be reliable.  And any company that can't provide that sort of product doesn't get repeat business from me.  So Harley doesn't need to hold their breath waiting for another $30k plus from your's truly.  

I find it somewhat strange how some folks seem to wear their chosen brand's poor quality and reliability like a badge of honor.  Working on the bikes because we want to "customize" or maintain them is fine; working on them to fix all the junk pawned off at top dollar by the manufacturer is not fine.  And no matter what anyone says, they won't convince me that buying and accepting junk is a good thing.

As for the subject of this thread, I also find it to be very "Harleyesque" to change policy in midstream on something like the SE compensator deal.  Early on they agreed on a case by case basis to upgrade 110's to the SE part to resolve starting issues.  Then someone obviously realized that this issue was much bigger than they thought, and to save bucks they created the new policy.  The fact that the original design was junk didn't enter into the decision, just the desire to save money.  The fact that the decision is short sighted and could ultimately cost them more due to multiple failures also doesn't seem to have been considered.  Can't imagine why they are in trouble.


JMHO  -  Jerry

[Beemer]

Well.....I dropped the bike off yesterday and they're installing the SE compensator as I type this...it went right up on the lift.  It'll cost me the difference of about $140.  The MoCo is paying the dealer to perform the swap under warranty. 

The best part of this is that I won't have to worry every time I go for the start switch anymore.

It still peeves me about the phone call...the fact that these people unashamedly spout such stupidity in response to a valid and logical argument from what should be a highly valued customer is truly beyond me.

The fact that the MoCo rejects what will obviously save them money and more importantly reinforce a "valued customer's" loyalty and confidence for such shortsighted buttom-line thought tells volumes on why the MoCo is in trouble.

[Twolanerider]

from what should be a highly valued customer is truly beyond me.

The fact that the MoCo rejects what will obviously save them money and more importantly reinforce a "valued customer's" loyalty and confidence for such shortsighted buttom-line thought tells volumes on why the MoCo is in trouble.

Took a long time for me to truly and totally understand that issue with the MoCo.  Loyalty (though it's not loyalty so "interest" is probably the better word) is only to the next customer and the next dollar.  The immediately previous dollar of income is already booked and dismissed once their register drawer closes.

There may be some accountant's arithmetic wherein that makes sense.  If so I guess they're doing what they must.  But I'll not be their partner for that dance.  There are still vendors who actually give a damn about both who their customers will be and who they have been.  Those that are the shops I'll work with.  And I don't need to buy a new bike.  So the attitudes of others will earn my patronage.

[LarryB]

The stock oem assembly is $148.00, the se compensator is $249.00. this is list. we offer the upgrade for the difference any time we do it, and the extended service plan advises us to do so.

[sadunbar]

The stock oem assembly is $148.00, the se compensator is $249.00. this is list. we offer the upgrade for the difference any time we do it, and the extended service plan advises us to do so.

And dealer cost of the SE compensator is $174.95. 

So the dealer ends up with the warranty stock compensator which sells for $148.00 plus your $140.00 in exchange for the SE compensator that cost them $174.95.....