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[Midnight Rider]

Very true...it's all about an individual's priorities, and you certainly are not going to make a Ducati with top of the line Ohlin suspension out of any HD.  But, you can make it the best it can be in that regard.  ANYTHING is an improvement over the stock crap they put on a 35K bike. And it will seem like a night/day difference, if you don't have anything else to compare it to...Unfortunately, I'm spoiled now with the AK 20's, so nothing else would do.  It really is shameful that HD still uses the cheapest suspension components out there, but it took them 100 years to put decent brakes on a 900lb bike, so maybe they'll get around to the other stuff eventually.

Since I'm not one to chase the big numbers for motor mods, I spend on the things that matter to me, which are handling and getting my feet flat(er) on the ground when necessary.  Now I'm done with this bike as far as any major expense.

[SBB]

The thing that amazes me is the install is only $150......since it is quite a ride for me I was hoping to save a little more by doing it myself.

Mike

Can you send your forks to them?

SBB

[ultrafxr]

Added the Traxxion AK-20s on my '07 CUSE (which I still have) within the first six months and it made a definite improvement.

In the parts catalog for my new '11 RUSE I notice that the stanchion tube, damper tube, damper valve, and spring are new in 2009.  Just wondering what (if any) 'improvements' these newer parts are over what came before.  The ruse seems to handle much better in stock trim than I recall my cuse having done.  With the new frame and different front and rear suspension I am thinking hoping I may not have to spend invest the $$ in the suspension like I did on my cuse.

[smkblwr]

I also am looking for the best possiable handling and to get my feet firmly on the ground, being that i have already lowered it and the squishy frontend is spookly at best in the corners. I was surprised how it much better my 03RKC handles the corners with the stock suspension not being lowered, granted the Ultra is heavyer but still. It's a completely different handling feel. For what I have dropped in the motor to get it right, this suspension upgrade isn't that much .

[Midnight Rider]

I also am looking for the best possiable handling and to get my feet firmly on the ground, being that i have already lowered it and the squishy frontend is spookly at best in the corners. I was surprised how it much better my 03RKC handles the corners with the stock suspension not being lowered, granted the Ultra is heavyer but still. It's a completely different handling feel. For what I have dropped in the motor to get it right, this suspension upgrade isn't that much .

If you want to keep the front lowered, Traxxion can install the same AK-20 cartridges, but just use a different spring to get the height you want.  However, don't expect as much "sag" when you get on the bike...the stock front end sags a lot, even just standing the bike up off the kickstand...that will be greatly diminished with the AK-20s.  They also pick a spring based on your weight, whether you ride often with a passenger, and if so, their weight, and if you ride loaded with luggage.  I'm assuming you lowered the rear as well, perhaps using the shocks offered by HD?  If so, I'd take a hard look at the Bitubo 300mm shock Traxxion offers (the stock height is 330mm).  They aren't cheap either, but they are GREAT shocks once you get them set up.  I have Legend Air shocks on the back of my SERGU, but I put them on there because I need to drop the bike the 3" in the rear to get my feet on the ground better when walking this 950 + lb bike around...if not, it would have Bitubo shocks on it...I had both the AK-20's and Bitubos on my '06 SEVROD....best riding bike I've ever ridden.  With the Bitubos, you must take the time to get them set up right.

[Midnight Rider]

Added the Traxxion AK-20s on my '07 CUSE (which I still have) within the first six months and it made a definite improvement.

In the parts catalog for my new '11 RUSE I notice that the stanchion tube, damper tube, damper valve, and spring are new in 2009.  Just wondering what (if any) 'improvements' these newer parts are over what came before.  The ruse seems to handle much better in stock trim than I recall my cuse having done.  With the new frame and different front and rear suspension I am thinking hoping I may not have to spend invest the $$ in the suspension like I did on my cuse.

Jerry...just went out into the basement to look at what was in the package that they took out of the front end of the bike...there are a few more things in there than I remember from the '06, but I couldn't tell you what they are.  The '06 actually had an emulator in it, and it appears that one of the items in the package is an emulator too.  Having said that, it's still just an emulator...the basic problems with the stock stuff are that first, they put a "one size fits all" spring in each leg, and secondly, by design, the stock components will only allow a certain amount of fork oil through the valving...on normal undulating roads, when the oil can pass through the valve readily, it all works fairly well.  It's when it gets compressed suddenly then it has a problem...only so much oil can go through the given size...the rest just gets compressed, resulting in a harsh jolt to the front end.  Not to mention that the stock springs simply collapse on hard braking or turning into curves, allowing parts to start dragging.  And the damping really sucks on the stock stuff.  I agree with you that the new bike is better than what we had back in '06/'07...some of that, I think, can be attributed to the frame mounted fairing, and some more to the newer stuff in the forks from HD, and of course, the new frame.  But, they still ain't true cartridges, and there is simply no substitute, IMO.  Since the RG is apparently going to be your main touring bike now, have you considered swapping the components of the two bikes...it might be worth looking into, but I'm not sure how much money you'd end up saving because the AK's are probably due for servicing (not a big deal), and the labor to pull both forks for the swap might eat up any potential savings on parts.

[Midnight Rider]

One other comment...I have NO vested interest in Traxxion Dynamics, or whether anyone gets their product or not.  Believe me, I'm not getting paid by Traxxion to promote their product  .  I just think their stuff is the best out there, and am relaying that information, and my personal impressions of both their product, and their professionalism/customer service.

I will add one more tidbit of information for digestion...the stock springs rub constantly on the inside of the forks, causing flakes of spring metal (inherent), and some particles from the inside of the forks to quickly contaminate the fork oil...Max and some of the techs have told me about forks they've worked on where the oil stunk so bad they smelled it for hours, even after draining and disposing, and this was on all bikes, not just HDs. When Traxxion installs the AK-20 cartridges and new springs, they put some kind of plastic/nylon (whatever) sleeve over the spring so that it keeps them from flexing and rubbing up against the inside of the fork.  They use a high quality racing fork oil as well, so it holds up better over time.  Recommended service intervals for their product is every 25K...they go through all components to check them to original specs, replace things if necessary, and put it all back together with fresh oil.  Don't quote me on this, but I think this costs about $400 + or -, depending on whether seals and bushings need to be replaced as well (those are still HD parts).  The bushings have some sort of teflon like coating on them which wears off over time, but those are like $10 parts, so no big deal.  I recently heard a local dealer quote $300 for labor to pull the forks and service them, not including any parts that need to be replaced.  I'm not sure what model of bike the guy was getting the quote on.

[Dan_Lockwood]

If you want to keep the front lowered, Traxxion can install the same AK-20 cartridges, but just use a different spring to get the height you want.  However, don't expect as much "sag" when you get on the bike...the stock front end sags a lot, even just standing the bike up off the kickstand...that will be greatly diminished with the AK-20s.  They also pick a spring based on your weight, whether you ride often with a passenger, and if so, their weight, and if you ride loaded with luggage.  I'm assuming you lowered the rear as well, perhaps using the shocks offered by HD?  If so, I'd take a hard look at the Bitubo 300mm shock Traxxion offers (the stock height is 330mm).  They aren't cheap either, but they are GREAT shocks once you get them set up.  I have Legend Air shocks on the back of my SERGU, but I put them on there because I need to drop the bike the 3" in the rear to get my feet on the ground better when walking this 950 + lb bike around...if not, it would have Bitubo shocks on it...I had both the AK-20's and Bitubos on my '06 SEVROD....best riding bike I've ever ridden.  With the Bitubos, you must take the time to get them set up right.

One thing to keep in mind with the "sag" you mention.

Without this sag in the normal ride position, our bikes would be killers on your body.

When installing springs and coilover shocks in the streetrods that I'm used to, your normal ride height is 1/3 compression.  That gives 2/3 compression and 1/3 rebound when properly setup.  Without the preload of the vehicle weight, the suspension would be hammering at the top so bad that you couldn't ride or drive the vehicle.

So it doesn't matter which suspension you have, you do need about 1/3 spring preload in ride height.

Now that statement does not mean they are all equal, they are not that at all.  It's just that ALL suspensions need to be setup the same, 1/3 - 2/3.  Performance of each is then based on valving and spring rates etc.

[smkblwr]

TCnBham I am also getting the 300mm Bitubo's, but they are out of stock. so I will be having them shipped to me when they get them in.

[110tHunDer]

 
I have 1" lower AK-20s and 300mm Bitubos on my '04, which maintained the stock, lowered ride height on that bike.  You won't be disappointed.  Great setup on my bike and has to be even more impressive on the new frame.

[Midnight Rider]

TCnBham I am also getting the 300mm Bitubo's, but they are out of stock. so I will be having them shipped to me when they get them in.

Be patient...when I was over there, Dan had just got a shipment in for a bunch of HD guys...all the 330mm though, I think.  It seems that in Italy, they don't get in a big hurry about some things, but be assured that Dan is on top of things at Traxxion with regards to getting things in and shipping them out.

[Midnight Rider]

So it doesn't matter which suspension you have, you do need about 1/3 spring preload in ride height.

Now that statement does not mean they are all equal, they are not that at all.  It's just that ALL suspensions need to be setup the same, 1/3 - 2/3.  Performance of each is then based on valving and spring rates etc.

It also depends on the total amount of suspension travel available, load, etc.  If memory serves me, Bitubo recommends a starting point of about 25mm, which is right at an inch, so if the total travel of the shock is 3" (on their 330mm shock), that would be about what you are saying, and I think that is about what a "normal" height HD bike has, the shock being about 13" from eye to eye.  The spring preload adjusts the sag on the Bitubos, just like any other shock...the difference is that they also have a 5 click (or is it 6?) adjustment on rebound damping, and a non-linear needle valve on the external canister that has about 13 clicks for compression damping, so that the shock won't bottom out.  So, at a setting of say 7 on the compression damping for normal riding, you might have to adjust the preload on the spring a bit for a loaded condition, and raise the number on the compression damping to maybe 10 or so...the effect from 7 to 10 is greater for each click than it is between 1 and 6, if you get what I mean, which I'm sure you do.

However, IMO, the sag on the front forks of a touring model of a HD bike is waaaaay too much because of weak springs and thus you don't have the suspension travel needed to keep from bottoming out...again this is my opinion...you can practically bottom the front end of a touring bike by simply getting on the front brakes hard, which is unacceptable, IMO, because then you have little, if any, travel left to soak up any road irregularity encountered....that, along with piss poor damping control, leaves much to be desired, especially if you ride somewhat aggressively in the twisties.  The front tire can only stay on the ground with proper springs and damping control...things like running over a rubboard type road surface in the middle of a turn can make the pucker factor increase exponentially when your front tire is skipping across the surface sideways.  Springs are always a compromise. It's really hard to describe the difference the AK-20 cartridges make, other than to say your tire is in constant, controllable contact with the road surface at all times.  The bike just tracks better, and brakes more effectively because the front end does not dive so dramatically.  I'm not saying it becomes a sport bike, because it can't.

[Spiderman]

One other comment...I have NO vested interest in Traxxion Dynamics, or whether anyone gets their product or not.  Believe me, I'm not getting paid by Traxxion to promote their product 

Are you sure ? I haven't seen you ramble on like this since the last Presidential election cycle 


B B

[Twolanerider]

Are you sure ? I haven't seen you ramble on like this since the last Presidential election cycle 


B B

Traxxion Dynamics for President ?

[jiml53]

Hey Smkblwr,

How did it all turn out?? I'm thinking of going to them but keep the stock height. 


   jim