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Author Topic: Synthetic Oils  (Read 11179 times)

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Midnight Rider

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Re: Synthetic Oils
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2006, 12:05:12 AM »

Can't go wrong with Amsoil I don't think....main thing is a TRUE syn, NOT a blend, and a group IV/V rating...according to my expert source.  By the way, his company will ship the Mobil (for cars or whatever) at a discounted price, though I don't know yet how it compared to wal mart, if they have it.  They have the v-twin version and all others.  I'm changing my car over to the 0W30...he promises me a quieter engine, improved (slightly) gas milage, and a seat of the pants "feel" that is different.  By the way, he said the current oil I'm using in the car is by far one of the best mineral oils there is....Castrol 5W30.
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Re: Synthetic Oils
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2006, 09:26:35 AM »

I am using Mobil one for my touring bike.   I feel it will be easier to buy a quart of that on the road verses any of the other products that have been listed.  
« Last Edit: May 19, 2006, 09:49:53 AM by GregLyon »
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spydglide

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Re: Synthetic Oils
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2006, 09:37:23 AM »

Quote
I am using Mobil one for my touring bike.   I feel it will be easier to by a quart of that on the road verses any of the other products that have been listed.  
wouldn't ANY oil that's rated OK for diesels be ok to add (compatable) to your existing synthetic oil if you were on the road and were low for some reason?   [smiley=nixweiss.gif] spyder
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gdkenoyer

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Re: Synthetic Oils
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2006, 06:21:40 PM »

Quote
I have it from my source that it is blended by Sunoco....the lowest bidder.  Apparently, there were several who tried to get the contract, but did not succeed.
Used to be Sunoco, went to Citgo some years back...not proof but check out this string over in BITOG.

o, yea, btw, I got my M1 VTwin at the local Walmart...
« Last Edit: May 19, 2006, 06:24:14 PM by gdkenoyer »
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grc

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Re: Synthetic Oils
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2006, 08:07:29 PM »

Quote
wouldn't ANY oil that's rated OK for diesels be ok to add (compatable) to your existing synthetic oil if you were on the road and were low for some reason?   [smiley=nixweiss.gif] spyder
spyder,

That's what H-D says in the owner's manual.  "If it is necessary to add oil and Screamin' Eagle SYN3 is not available, use an oil certified for diesel engines.  Acceptable designations include:  CF-4, CG-4, CH-4, CI-4.  The preferred viscosity's for the diesel engine oils, in descending order are: 20W50, 15W50, 10W40.  At the first opportunity, see a Harley-Davidson dealer to change back to 100% Harley-Davidson oil."  

When it comes right down to it, I wouldn't worry too much if I couldn't find the exact oil or rating - any oil is better than no oil or low oil.  Just make sure to change it and go back to 100% of your chosen elixir as soon as possible.  BTW - many oils carry multiple ratings that cover both gas and diesel engines.  Mobil 1 V-Twin, for instance, is rated SG and CF.

Jerry
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Midnight Rider

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Re: Synthetic Oils
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2006, 10:09:56 PM »

Don't know if Advanced Auto Parts is in any of your areas, but they carry both of the Mobil 1 oils recommended by my oil guru   ;) For both HD and others.  I'm changing my Duck over in the morning...I'll post after my ride tomorrow afternoon...from what I've heard from others, I will notice a change within the first 50 miles...we'll see.
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Re: Synthetic Oils
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2006, 09:59:21 PM »

OK...did the oil (Mobil 1 10W40 MT4X) and filter change this morning in the Ducati (992cc/92HP/68fp L-Twin)...no other mods (to date) to the bike other than handlebar risers.  Please bear in mind that I am big time OCD about caring for my stuff, and also that I have a SE Ultra coming in June (delayed for paint), so don't have a HD to compare to at the moment. But, we're talking about high performance twins with either of these bikes. The Duck has 2700 miles on her, and was serviced by the dealer with Shell "synthetic" at 600 miles (Ducati recommended). Yesterday, coming home from work, it ran oil temps of about 210 + or -, and it was cooler yesterday here by about 8 or 10 degrees. The bike has an oil cooler, but it is not thermostatically controlled. After making the change, I took the bike out in the hottest part of the day and ran a 70 mile circuit that has some slab, but mostly county/state highways with some nice curves and straightaways, so lot's of shifting involved this afternoon.  I SWEAR, after about 20 miles I started feeling a difference in the engine/tranny (straight cut tranny gears, just like HD, it's just all in the same sump)...smoother running engine, and transmission was shifting easier (kind of clunked into gear with the Shell).  After 50 miles, a noticeable increase in "seat of the pants" HP, the transmission starts "clicking" into gear with no effort at all, and the oil temp was running 5 to 10 degrees cooler, despite the warmer ambient air temp.  Also MUCH easier to find neutral, regardless of whether rolling or standing still.  Where I have been having some trouble finding neutral when I pull into the basement, had NO problem at all.  George, the oil engineer, indicated to me in an earlier e-mail that this would happen, but being doubtful about these kinds of claims, I took it with a grain of salt.  He also said it would get better and better as the Mobil worked it's way into all the nooks and crannies of the transmission. He was dead on...

Now I'm not advocating that anyone change what they're doing, as I have been a Castrol fan since my VW days, and won't run anything else in any of the cars/trucks I've ever owned...the point being that I'm hard to sell about this kind of stuff. Everybody has their preferences, and if it works for you, keep on doing it.  But, I can guarantee that I will be running Mobil I 20W50 VTWIN in all three holes of my CVO when it gets changed at the 1000 mile service, based on what I experienced today with the 10W40...and, will be giving up the Castrol in my H6 Subaru Outback in favor of his recommendation of 0W30 Mobil I, even if I have to order it. This stuff is slick, pun intended.   [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

  
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Re: Synthetic Oils
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2006, 12:17:32 AM »

Quote
Hey Garz......we'll probably never be able to uncover that corporate secret :-X, but I, also, would love to know who's oil it is........then  we'd have better comparative info, huh?  :-? spyder
Hell w/the info. You know if it was known who manufactured it then we could get it w/o "H-D" on it a lot cheaper. ;D

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Garznhogs

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Re: Synthetic Oils
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2006, 06:53:33 PM »

Quote
Hell w/the info. You know if it was known who manufactured it then we could get it w/o "H-D" on it a lot cheaper. ;D

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And so, to quote the venerable Hubbard, There endeth the lesson.

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Re: Synthetic Oils
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2006, 09:17:05 PM »

I can say three things for sure...it ain't Mobil or Amsoil....it's Sunoco.  And one other thing...Syn3 is not the best out there, regardless of how much HD charges for it.
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Ravenworks

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Re: Synthetic Oils
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2006, 10:04:50 PM »

Quote
I can say three things for sure...it ain't Mobil or Amsoil....it's Sunoco.  And one other thing...Syn3 is not the best out there, regardless of how much HD charges for it.
I couldn't of said it better,you are 100% right.
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Re: Synthetic Oils
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2006, 05:05:46 PM »

WHY HARLEY OWNERS CHOOSE AMSOIL
Wear Test Comparison - AMSOIL vs. Harley Screamin' Eagle

The recent introduction of Screamin' Eagle® Synthetic Lubricant by Harley-Davidson® indicates the Motor Company has finally recognized the benefits of running synthetic motorcycle oil in their air-cooled engines. After years of advising dealers and customers to avoid using synthetic oils in their bikes, it's natural to wonder why the company is suddenly marketing one.

For the past 20 years, Harley-Davidson® has claimed its petroleum-based Genuine H-D Oil is best for the "unique requirements of Harley-Davidson® air-cooled V-twin engines." However, laboratory testing has consistently revealed that Genuine H-D Oil does not provide the best protection possible for Harley-Davidson® engines. In fact, Four-Ball Wear Tests show Harley- Davidson® 20W-50 Motorcycle Oil leaves a wear scar nearly 80 percent larger than that left by AMSOIL Synthetic 20W-50 Motorcycle Oil.



Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D4172), 40kg pressure @ 150 degrees C, 1800 rpm for 1 hour duration
April 2003 test results
 
The Four-Ball Wear Test is the industry's standard test method for measuring the wear preventive characteristics of a lubricant. Placed in a bath of the test lubricant, three fixed steel balls are put into contact with a fourth ball in rotating contact at preset test conditions. Lubricant wear protection properties are measured by comparing the average wear scars on the three fixed balls. The smaller the average wear scar, the better the protection.  
One of the major benefits of running a synthetic motorcycle oil is its resistance to oxidation and thermal degradation, which inhibit the formation of sludge and deposits that contribute to increased wear. In the past, Harley-Davidson® has defended use of its Genuine H-D Oil by arguing that oil breakdown in extreme heat is a non-issue because extreme heat conditions are not normally faced by motorcycle engines, while the superior cold-temperature benefits of synthetics also don't apply to Harleys.

The fact is, engine oil in Harley-Davidson® motorcycles is subject to very high temperatures. Being air-cooled, Harley-Davidson® engines get especially hot while idling in traffic, commonly reaching temperatures up to 240 degrees Fahrenheit. As heat and oxidation increase, so does viscosity, adversely affecting the lubricating qualities of the oil and increasing wear.

The water, soot and acid byproducts of combustion also contribute to deposit formation. Harley-Davidson® has stressed the importance of regular oil changes in order to remove these contaminants. Of course, promoting regular oil changes is also a good way to promote using petroleum-based Genuine H-D Oil. High-quality synthetic oils formulated with high-performance additives effectively withstand such contaminants, allowing motorcyclists to safely extend drain intervals.

In support of their about-face and the introduction of a synthetic oil, Harley maintains that "the Motor Company has never supported the use of synthetic products in our vehicles because there has never been any test validations completed on the numerous formulations in HD/Buell motorcycles. This product has been exclusively designed for Harley-Davidson® and is the only synthetic product TESTED and CERTIFIED by Harley-Davidson® engineering for use in HD/Buell motorcycles."

Although this is necessary marketing hype, Harley-Davidson® V-twin air-cooled engines are not unique in their lubrication requirements and do not require a special Harley-only fluid. There is nothing about Screamin' Eagle® Synthetic Motorcycle Oil that sets it apart from, or makes it better than, many other synthetic motorcycle oil formulations, except that Harley-Davidson® is marketing it and directly profiting from the sales.

According to Harley-Davidson®, one of the unique benefits offered by Screamin' Eagle® Synthetic Motorcycle Oil is its versatility. For the first time the company is recommending an oil that can be used in the engines, primary chaincases and transmissions of most Harley-Davidson® motorcycles, including Evolution XL, Evolution 1340, Twin Cam 88 and 88B, Revolution and Buell models. This feature, however, is not unique. AMSOIL 20W-50 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil may also be used in the engines, primary chaincases and transmissions of these applications, providing superior lubricating protection in each component.

How does Screamin' Eagle® Synthetic Motorcycle Oil measure up to AMSOIL in wear protection? Four-Ball Wear Test results indicate that AMSOIL Synthetic Motorcycle Oil still provides the best protection possible for motorcycles. In fact, Screamin' Eagle® Synthetic Motorcycle Oil leaves a wear scar nearly 80 percent larger than AMSOIL 20W-50 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil.

Not only does AMSOIL Synthetic Motorcycle Oil offer greater wear protection than Screamin' Eagle® Synthetic Motorcycle Oil, it also delivers greater value. Suggested retail price of Screamin' Eagle® is nearly $2 a quart higher than AMSOIL 20W-50 Motorcycle Oil. And because AMSOIL Synthetic Motorcycle Oil may be used for extended drain intervals of up to twice the manufacturer's suggested interval, while Screamin' Eagle® is recommended for standard drain intervals, AMSOIL customers realize additional savings.

Harley-Davidson® claims Screamin' Eagle® Synthetic Motorcycle Oil has been "exclusively designed" for use in their motorcycles, pointing to extensive bench testing and over 230,000 miles of durability testing to back it up. AMSOIL INC. has 30 years of experience providing superior lubricating protection for all brands of motorcycles, and AMSOIL Synthetic Motorcycle Oils have been tested in millions of over-the-road miles. Testimonials from countless motorcyclists further demonstrate the superiority of AMSOIL Synthetic Motorcycle Oils.

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Re: Synthetic Oils
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2006, 05:57:50 PM »

I like and use AMSOIL so you're preaching to the choir on this one BUT boy oh boy, can this ever start a thread that goes on forever! Seems everyone has an opinion on choice of lubricants. Come to think of it, same thing seems to apply to appearance products (wax, polish, wash, etc.)  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
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Re: Synthetic Oils
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2006, 07:40:31 PM »

I believe that most of that data came from AMSOIL.  It's interesting that when asked, they will admit that it's not the best to use the same oil in the tranny and motor but they state that you can do that so they'll be more competitive w/ the HD syn- 3.  Also, I think the recommended drain intervals are now the same as HD has 'extended' theirs ....  probably to compete w/ Amsoil.  Who knows what to believe as I'm not sure there's been any good 'independent' data produced.   [smiley=nixweiss.gif] spyder
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Re: Synthetic Oils
« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2006, 08:27:50 PM »

Quote
I can say three things for sure...it ain't Mobil or Amsoil....it's Sunoco.  And one other thing...Syn3 is not the best out there, regardless of how much HD charges for it.

TC I have a friend that works for the MOCO. He told me Harley Oils are made by Citgo. If that is true I WILL NOT BUY ANY OIL PRODUCTS FROM HARLEY DAVIDSON!!!! Citgo is owned by the Venezuailian Government. President Chavez of Venezuilia has said he wants to destroy the GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STSTES. I don't why the people of this country even deal with him!

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