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[dayne66]

Likewise, I believe we should put forth a petition to ban the sale of Cracker-Jacks nationwide !

   Please don't ban them yet....I don't have the full set of certificates and licences yet.

[Twolanerider]

Who gets to decided who should and who shouldn't get to do stuff (assuming we are talking about legal "stuff") if its me, than I agree, if its Twolane than no way.  That guy will jump out of a perfectly good airplane.   

I'm back home tomorrow.  Be good of I'll fart in your general direction.  Pttthhhhhhhh.

[AZ Sparky]

Obviously you haven't read many news reports about bike to bike crashes, but I have and I've also seen the aftermath of a couple such crashes in person.  Just had a nasty one in the news this past summer as a matter of fact, and I believe we wound up with four or five dead.

This has nothing to do with protecting an incompetent from himself, and everything to do with protecting the rest of us from him.  Do you really think all the laws that require things like driver's licenses for cars, certifications for pilots and surgeons, etc. are in place to protect them?  Not hardly.

If someone has no clue about how to ride, or is physically or mentally incapable of riding safely, then yes indeed he is a danger to the public and shouldn't be allowed to ride on public property.  If he wants to buy a few acres and make his own track, more power to him.  But I don't want him riding near me, or running down some little old lady at a crossing because he can't control his bike and come to a safe stop, or T-boning a family in a minivan at 150 mph and killing all the occupants (yes this is also a real example). 

For those who always like to preach about all those supposed inalienable rights to do as they please, let me suggest that the next time they need surgery they get the guy who dropped out of high school but has since watched every episode of ER and MASH 10 times so obviously he knows everything he needs to know to perform your bypass.  After all, he has an inalienable right to be what he wants to be, qualified or not.  Medical licenses are just an infringement on his rights.


Jerry

You're right, I haven't read about or witnessed many bike on bike incidents, so yes, my input on this was/is based on a position of partial ingorance.

You want to bang on me for that, fine - that is justly deserved.

That being said I believed the discussion was about someone not having skills sufficient to fully operate their machine - not the lunatic travelling at 150MPH.

Also, I believe the discussion was about motorcycles and not automobiles, the smallest of which is still MUCH heavier and capable of MUCH more damage than the heaviest of typical motorcycles.

Nor was this about airplanes, surgeons or 1st responders.

I merely wanted to point out the fact that these people (inexperienced owner/operators) are much more of a threat to themselves than to anyone else.

By the way, the one at the 150MPH T-Boning a minivan - how long had that one been riding?

What about the "latest one" causing the 4 or 5 dead - what was his/her riding experience/skill level?

I think if those questions were answered they might be a bit more germane to the discussion.

[SneakyPete]

while there has been some brutal comments here in regard to the OP's concern. I think he has gotten some really great info and insight to the trials and tribulations that come along with the immense responsibilities of owning and riding a big twin on public roads. I hope he is successful in obtaining the confidence and skills it takes to do so.



Good Luck


TN

Or he can buy a trailer and ride like you! :-)

[Trapperdog]

If you forward to 19:30 minuets, this video of a local group here shows how an inexperienced rider in a group causes more injuries than to just himself.

[Eagle Eye]

By the way, the one at the 150MPH T-Boning a minivan - how long had that one been riding?

What about the "latest one" causing the 4 or 5 dead - what was his/her riding experience/skill level?

I think if those questions were answered they might be a bit more germane to the discussion.

Obviously not long enough, with proper training, education or MATURITY to know better than to ride in a manner where they could kill someone else.  I'd wager they have very little structured field training and classroom time, or they would have made better decisions.  They can afford the monthly payment, but refuse to hone their skills.  The ones that do, don't pull these kinds of stunts.  

I see the a..holes every day a block from my house.  Usually on a rice rocket, sometimes in the souped up import cars - flying down a 35 mph city street at up to 75 mph.  It is only a matter of time before it becomes headlines.  I just hope it's not my Grandchildren, Daughter or Wife who get taken out due to some inexperienced fool on a 175+ HP rocket.  

We had one in our neighborhood flying through as if it were the Isle of Mann.  I stepped out into the street and he about sheit his britches. He had been flying through out neighborhood for days, so this time I was waiting for him.  I haven't seen him in a month.  Could be the bike and the rider's totaled.  These guys give bikers a bad name.

    

[porthole]

Or he can buy a trailer and ride like you! :-)

   

At 6 minutes in the video there is another wreck, front tire blow out on a turn (or so they say). The two guys doing video collide as they come up to the wreck.

And it appears the red bike doing video is the one that hits the down bike, guess his video died as he is the narrator.

[Trapperdog]

 

At 6 minutes in the video there is another wreck, front tire blow out on a turn (or so they say). The two guys doing video collide as they come up to the wreck.

Yea, that's a whole other cluster %@#*. Last word here ( http://www.southbayriders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114533 ) is that is was rider error, on a new Hyabusa.

[Wild Card]

Obviously not long enough, with proper training, education or MATURITY to know better than to ride in a manner where they could kill someone else.  I'd wager they have very little structured field training and classroom time, or they would have made better decisions.  They can afford the monthly payment, but refuse to hone their skills.  The ones that do, don't pull these kinds of stunts.  

I see the a..holes every day a block from my house.  Usually on a rice rocket, sometimes in the souped up import cars - flying down a 35 mph city street at up to 75 mph.  It is only a matter of time before it becomes headlines.  I just hope it's not my Grandchildren, Daughter or Wife who get taken out due to some inexperienced fool on a 175+ HP rocket.  

We had one in our neighborhood flying through as if it were the Isle of Mann.  I stepped out into the street and he about sheit his britches. He had been flying through out neighborhood for days, so this time I was waiting for him.  I haven't seen him in a month.  Could be the bike and the rider's totaled.  These guys give bikers a bad name.

    

It's not just the "kids on rice rockets" that give motorcyclists a bad name.  There are an equal amount of inexperienced and/or risky riders, young and old, on Harleys. 

[Eagle Eye]

It's not just the "kids on rice rockets" that give motorcyclists a bad name.  There are an equal amount of inexperienced and/or risky riders, young and old, on Harleys. 

Absolutely Wild Card! 

This isn't the only example I've witnessed, but by far it was the stupidest:

Riding home from Reno (After St. Vibes) two or three years ago on I-80, there was a tractor trailer jackknifed, that had tied up traffic to the top of the mountains.  Close to 30 miles of vehicular snarl.  It was snowing and then raining hard at the lower elevations.  Wife and I were being good citizens and pacing the traffic going from 0 to 25 mph.  I don't split lanes with her on board, ever.  Flying by at stupid speeds were a number of bikes, many two-up going at least 50 - 60 mph between virtually stopped vehicles.  They obviously had a death wish.  Visibility was poor.  There was no way they could control those big bikes if a vehicle changed lanes in front of them.  The roads were soaked and traffic in all lanes nearly stopped at times.  Darwin's theory at work again.  Fortunately, we didn't have to witness anything as a result.

Regarding lane splitting...

Some people are far more comfortable lane splitting than I am.  I will try to gracefully wind my way through traffic and when once in a while a nice cager moves over to let me through, I often take them up on it.  At least I know they know I'm there.  But, I remember the feeling I had the first time a lane splitter passed me on I 880.  It was around mid 2001.  I was doing at least 50 in very heavy traffic and this rice rocket passed as if I were standing still. Until he passed, I had no idea he was coming. Very shocking for a moment.  Having just moved back to California, I wasn't used to this and it was a real eye opener.  Now I watch for them always when driving my cage.

I commute on my bike nearly every day, weather permitting, because I love riding and because I get to use the carpool lane.  Saves fuel too...three wins.  Even so, often I have someone blow by me as if I'm standing still.  In between the cars they go as if everyone knows they're there.  I mean faster than common sense would allow.  The statistics tell the rest of the story. It's worse during the best weather periods.  I've noticed a slight decline, since the recession hit.  Could be at least one good side effect.

Keep in mind, many drivers in this state are just visiting California.  They don't know this is legal and aren't watching for us.

I've made my share of bonehead decisions in life, but thank God it didn't result in anything drastic.  Also, I've done loads of group rides, with riders of many levels of experience.  One inexperienced rider highsided his bike on Hwy 9 approaching a hairpin curve.  We had plenty of time to stop and help him, rather than plow into him.  Aside from a bruised ego, he was okay and rode back home after he enjoyed lunch at Alice's with us.  Another had his rear tire blow on 120 in Manteca.  He was riding a '99 Indian.  The Hwy bar had a point near the bottom side of the bar and it caught the road as he wobbled to a stop, tossing him and the bike.  Fortunately he too walked away from it.  An inexperienced rider might have not fared as well.  I convinced him to put a rounded crash bar on his bike.

Accidents happen.  We could second guess the guys in the video all day long.  Based on what I read on their board and saw in the video, it appears to be rider error on both parts.  We have the good luck to be watching the video and not be entangled in the mess they created on the road.  This is a good lesson as to why we give enough space between bikes, especially on a curvy road.  Far too often when riding in the Santa Cruz Mountains, sport bikes routinely pass me on double yellow curves, just inviting potential disaster.  I slow down and give them plenty of room, when I see them coming.  At times I don't...whew!

Okay...bla, bla, bla...sorry for the ramblings.  This situation definitely strikes an emotional cord for most of us.  We all love riding, don't want to crash and don't like seeing someone else do it to themselves and others.

Practice, practice, practice. 

By the way, anyone near the SF South Bay who would like to do some parking lot practice time, I have the markers and layouts for some good exercises.  Let me know and we'll get something organized.   I'm also open to any training suggestions as well.  I know about the "Ride Like A Pro" classes and plan to attend this spring.  But until then...

   

[HUBBARD]

Or he can buy a trailer and ride like you! :-)

OUCH!!!  Later--HUBBARD

[North Georgia Hawg]

If you forward to 19:30 minuets, this video of a local group here shows how an inexperienced rider in a group causes more injuries than to just himself.

Ok, so the SECOND crash was caused by one of these riders crashing into an oncoming POLICE CAR, well into the oncoming traffic lane. Look at the crash into the police car... the guy was in the middle of the police car's lane! Yeah, I'd say that was "rider error"... more like "riding like a testosterone-filled dumbAZZ" error...

[Fired00d]

Agreed.  On I-90 inbetween Winona and St. Charles, I had three retarded Harley riders loaded down and assumingly on their way to Sturgis pass me on the shoulder in a single lane construction zone at what had to be 80mph or a slightly greater speed.  It took everything I had not to run them off the road.  If I didn't have a car full of kids, they would've tested an H-D's ability to go off road.  With stupid riding like that, they are on their way to becoming a statistic.

Interesting comment coming from someone who rides.... sure hope no one has to tell your kids one day that daddy got run of the road by somebody that was pissed off at the way he was riding his motorcycle.

Not that I agree w/the way those rider's were riding or do I agree with a lot of the other stupid things people do on bikes but to take a vehicle and run them off the road is not anyway to handle the situation.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[AZ Sparky]

Absolutely Wild Card! 

This isn't the only example I've witnessed, but by far it was the stupidest:...

My father in law was low speed lane splitting in a stau (complete traffic jam) outside SanDiego - completely following all the rules/law
Car sees him coming and had enough room to move to this left and cut him off.
My father in law saw him and stopped.
"Unfortunately" (just how do we indicate heavy sarcasm) for the cager, while he saw my father in law, he didn't see the CHP Motor Cop on his passenger side who happend to witness the whole thing.
Lights
Siren
Ticket
He doesn't split lanes anymore - idiots are getting more and more populous - it's just too dangerous anymore.

[Eagle Eye]

Sometimes justice is served!