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Author Topic: Cobra Auto-Tune?  (Read 7608 times)

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LC110

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Cobra Auto-Tune?
« on: October 30, 2011, 03:50:54 PM »

New product from Cobra. I have read some reports on it. Does not use O2 sensors
http://www.hdforums.com/forum/general-harley-davidson-chat/691567-phat-performance-parts-cobra-powrpro-test.html
Anyone here have any experience with this Auto-Tune Product?
http://www.cobrausa.com/fuel_compare.php?model_id=438&make_id=1&model=FLTR-ROAD
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Re: Cobra Auto-Tune?
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2011, 04:10:16 PM »


Here's a couple previous threads on the Cobra.  My opinion, save your money and get a real tuning solution.  As best I can tell, it is a very expensive attempt by someone to pull the wool over folks eyes by throwing around the term "auto tune" very loosely.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=64131.0
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=58794.0


Jerry
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Re: Cobra Auto-Tune?
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2011, 04:11:54 PM »

Got as far as scanning the pics and saw that Boyseen x-wing insert thingy in the air cleaner.  Hard to put much stock in either a positive or negative recommendation from a source drinking that kool-aid.
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LC110

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Re: Cobra Auto-Tune?
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2011, 07:41:57 PM »

Thanks Jerry,
Now that I read the links, I do recall reading about this product.
I planned on keeping my TTS tuner.
Had a fellow CVO rider telling me how great the Cobra worked on his bike. He is the only one I know with one, so I thought I would ask if anyone here had used one.
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Montanakid

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Cobra Auto Tune
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2012, 12:18:07 AM »

i overheard a couple guys talking about a Tuner called a FI 2000 Auto Tuner, sposed to be the wave of the future. No more need for dyno tunes. Has anyone seen or heard of this? Just curious. :-\
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Re: Cobra Auto Tune
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2012, 08:46:40 AM »

i overheard a couple guys talking about a Tuner called a FI 2000 Auto Tuner, sposed to be the wave of the future. No more need for dyno tunes. Has anyone seen or heard of this? Just curious. :-\

If the wave of the future is BS, then I suppose this thing might be the wave of the future.  Try this thread:

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=68136.0


Jerry
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Re: Cobra Auto Tune
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2012, 07:50:48 PM »


If the wave of the future is BS, then I suppose this thing might be the wave of the future. 


X2  :2vrolijk_21:

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Re: Cobra Auto Tune
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2012, 10:16:32 PM »

Hey, Montana, I did a lot of research (what little is available) and decided to try the Cobra Powrpro Autotuner.  I paid about $530 for mine in October.  So far, I love it.  A local tuner here has installed a dozen or so of the PowrPros, and he says they're terrific, hasn't had any problems.  You'll hear all kinds of opinions, but I'll tell you my actual experience with it.

Here in SoCal, I've heard quotes from $300 to $500 for a dyno tune after you spend $500 to $800 on a new fuel controller that has autotune.  My plans are to modify my SG gradually; first pipes, then cams, high comp pistons, porting, maybe different pipes, etc, later, not all at once.  If it works as advertised, I figured it will save me a couple thousand dollars within the next 2 or 3 years.  And if I didn't like it, I decided I could live with the loss.

To begin with, this is my first real street bike, so I want to do all the work on it that I can.  I'm not confident with my computer skills, so tweaking the fuel controllers' maps seems like a lot of work and time.  I'm busy at work, and don't have much spare time anyway, like most of us.

Installation was a breeze.  Took me a half of an hour, which means 15 minutes for someone with more Harley experience.

I read on other sites that, on Harleys, starting is harder with the PowrPro.  I guess it's true.  Before the PowrPro, the engine turned over one or two times before starting. Now it starts after turning over 2 or 3 times.  In other words, it's barely noticeable. 

The initial ride took about 10 minutes for the PowrPro to "learn" my engine.  The throttle response was SO MUCH BETTER, it was very obvious.  My SG felt faster at all RPMs, especially passing at 60-80 mph without down shifting.  It may be my imagination, but I swear the engine runs smoother while cruising, too.

Stock, my bike would occasionally stall while idling, especially when hot.  Mostly at stop lights or pedestrian crosswalks. Embarrassing.  It hasn't done that since installing the Cobra.  Stock, I also noticed a lot of decel pop, between 2500 to 1500 rpm.  There is still some decel popping, but a lot less.  I am trying to find out if Cobra can program a little richer mix in the "throttle off" position.

It has been reported that gas mileage drops initially, then improves back almost to baseline as the PowrPro "learns" your driving habits.  This has also been my experience.  I was averaging 38 to 42 mpg stock.  It dropped to 36, and is climbing back up.  Average about 38 mpg now.  Two things might be affecting the mpg:  the colder weather requires a longer warm up, and I goose the throttle every chance I get now. :2vrolijk_21:.

My bike runs much cooler now, too.  At least 20-30 degrees cooler.  I put on cat-less pipes, too, that helps.

Now, I have never ridden a stock bike, then felt the improvement after it was dyno tuned, so I can't say how this compares to TTS or Thundermax or Power commander.  But so far, it performs exactly as advertised.  Literally, plug and play.

I hope there is a way to completely eliminate the remaining decel popping.  On the other hand, I kinda like it at the same time; it sounds really BadA$$.   8)  The only drawback I can think of is the inability to alter the settings.  But, I don't think there would be much change, even if you could dyno tune it.

Hope this helps.  I'm happy to answer any questions.





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lilcoot

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Re: Cobra Auto-Tune?
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2012, 07:37:08 AM »

Hey, OldLefty, if you are still interested in the Cobra PowrPro, I told Montanakid about my experience with it.  Unless you're a hard core tuner who likes to know they've squeezed every last HP out of their ride, I recommend it.  Performs great for a plug and play controller.
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lilcoot

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Re: Cobra Auto Tune
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2012, 08:20:49 AM »

Also, there is word going around that this Cobra tuner doesn't use 02 sensors.  Not true.  I was told it depends on the make and model.  On the tuner for the Street Glide, they definitely connect to, and use, the O2 sensors.

The technology has been used in automotive fuel injection for years.  This is the first time it has been applied to motorcycles.
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dayne66

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Re: Cobra Auto-Tune?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2012, 08:59:33 AM »

Also, there is word going around that this Cobra tuner doesn't use 02 sensors.  Not true.  I was told it depends on the make and model.  On the tuner for the Street Glide, they definitely connect to, and use, the O2 sensors.

The technology has been used in automotive fuel injection for years.  This is the first time it has been applied to motorcycles.
Whether it uses O2 sensors would be dependent more on the year than on the model of bike.. would it not?
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LC110

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Re: Cobra Auto-Tune?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2012, 10:41:44 AM »

I would never give up my TTS tuner for a Cobra.  A guy I ride with has the cobra installed and likes it. But did say his fuel mileage has now dropped into the upper 30's
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 05:27:55 PM by OldLefty »
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timo482

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Re: Cobra Auto-Tune?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2012, 03:15:06 PM »

the reason that the moco voids the warranty when the engine is modified is the plethora of snake oil remedies on the market, and folks willing to sell the snake oil, and folks willing to buy snake oil.

changing ANYTHING on a modern engine without really KNOWING WHAT IS GOING ON is a huge risk. it does not matter if its a harley or a chevy. many of the fuel "chip, dongle, ad on, other snake oil" mfg are just making money from the folks that have never put a engine together from scratch and taking there money for zero value. it really irritates me. basically its cheating them. its almost like stealing.

once you KNOW enough about what is going on its obvious that tts, sert, rev perf etc actually know what they are doing and provide tools that do what is advertised.

all the rest is simply a way to extract cold hard cash from your willing hands by promising you hyabusa performance from a harley bagger.

pt barnum explained this very well

to
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grc

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Re: Cobra Auto-Tune?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2012, 04:55:40 PM »

Whether it uses O2 sensors would be dependent more on the year than on the model of bike.. would it not?

Absolutely.  The units sold for pre-2007 baggers don't have connectors for O2 sensors, since those bikes didn't come with them.  The units sold for 2007 and later baggers do have connectors, because without them the closed loop system would not allow the Cobra "tuner" to override the closed loop parameters.  Once again, at the risk of pizzing some folks off, I'm calling BS on the entire deal.  The Cobra does not USE the sensors, it defeats them similar to the way the sensor eliminators used with a Power Commander work.  If folks would spend the time to learn how the stock systems actually work, rather than just read and regurgitate advertising claims as gospel, they would be able to easily see through the smoke.

The principles behind the Cobra line of "tuners" goes back many years, and the first of them to gain my attention was the TFI from Dobeck back in 2005.  It was a little black box with a harness that installed between the fuel injectors and the stock fuel injector harness (just like the Cobra, btw), and it added fuel to whatever the stock ECM determined to be the correct amount per the ECM calibration.  There were three potentiometers that the user could adjust with a screwdriver, one to adjust the extra fuel in low speed and cruise conditions, another for acceleration, and a third for WOT above 4000 rpm.  It was similar to the idle screw, the pilot jet, and the main jet setting on a carb, and that was how they described it in the literature.  You could buy one for $150 or so, and they did offer people with stock bikes or just stage one mods a cheap way to improve the lean condition of the stock map.  But they were in no way, shape, or form a real tuning solution.

If you look at the other Cobra offerings you will note they still have the 3 adjusting screws and work just like the old TFI modules.  Many other exhaust system companies used that same technology to market their own brand of "tuners", and they all trace their lineage to the same place.  Some, like V&H, modified their offering so it had many more adjustment points, but under the hood it was still the same idea.  None of these devices can alter anything but the fuel injector pulse width (the amount of time the injector is open), and that to me is not the definition of a real tuning solution.  And removing the user adjustability, like the latest Cobra version, doesn't match my definition of an "auto tune" device either.  It still intercepts the injector signals AFTER the stock ECM has done all the hard work and determined the correct pulse width, then modifies that signal based on the internal map in the little grey box while only monitoring rpm and possibly throttle position.  The stock ECM monitors those parameters plus engine temperature, intake air temperature, manifold absolute pressure, crank position, etc.. 

Folks are free to spend their money how they please, and it's not my intention to discourage them from doing so.  But misleading advertising tends to tick me off, and charging $600 for a much less competent solution really ticks me off.  I suggest that anyone seriously considering one of these things find himself a real, fully qualified person to talk to, not someone who just passes along advertising claims as fact.

And yes, PT Barnum was right on the money.


JMHO - Jerry
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Re: Cobra Auto-Tune?
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2012, 05:36:53 PM »

New product from Cobra. I have read some reports on it. Does not use O2 sensors
http://www.hdforums.com/forum/general-harley-davidson-chat/691567-phat-performance-parts-cobra-powrpro-test.html
Anyone here have any experience with this Auto-Tune Product?
http://www.cobrausa.com/fuel_compare.php?model_id=438&make_id=1&model=FLTR-ROAD

Since you have a '09 bike, you might want to look at this:  http://www.revperf.com/Precision/index.html

Several people on here are running their system, with good results.
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