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[willyB]

You'll no doubt find a Mass Air Flow sensor somewhere in the intake tract, which I'm sure goes a long way toward developing a proper profile for the changes you'd made.

You are correct.

[timo482]

what IS fascinating is that car ecm's are far more robust dealing with changes than hd ones are. the part of that that is fascinating is the parts are the SAME. its a delphi system. the biggest obvious difference is that cars are required by law to all have the same interface port - one of two types of obd port - hd does not have to, so basically the software is  non standard.. on cars the way the ecm reports data is fairly uniform. on our bikes it is not....

one of these days somebody is going to hack a gm delphi 4 cyl car system to work on our 2 cyl bikes - that will be the end of all the mickey mouse.

to

[glens]

Not under the same EPA mandates.

http://delphi.com/manufacturers/other/powertrain/mt05/

[grc]

One of these days the EPA is going to require motorcycle makers to go to OBDII just like the car folks.  Then things will get interesting; especially the part that requires a sensor after the catalyst to make sure the cat is functioning as required.  With OBDII you also have the capability for an interested party like your local state government to do emissions system compliance checks.  OBDII does the testing for them, all they have to do is connect to the diagnostic port and the ECM/PCM tells them if everything is OK or not.  This tends to make many mods a thing of the past.  Currently there are many places in the USA that require such testing for auto's and light trucks, including the area I live in near Chicago.  Once motorcycles are OBDII compliant, I can see them requiring compliance checks for bikes as well.  Gutting cats will be out, as will aftermarket ECM's and a lot of other mods.  Enjoy the freedom while you can.

Btw, the Powertrain Control Modules in a late model car or truck are much more sophisticated than the ECM in a Harley.  While it's made by Delphi, it isn't necessarily the same thing you'll find in a Chevy.  But it is a pretty sophisticated and capable device in it's own right.

[willyB]

Are you all suggesting that ECM's are an emmissions requirement?

[Twolanerider]

Are you all suggesting that ECM's are an emmissions requirement?

The ECM is very much part of the emissions system.  It is, among many other things, fuel management.  Yet another of those alter-at-your-own risk components we so often mess with.  You need look no further than the CARB specific 50 states legal offerings of T-Max and Power Commander to know there's an emissions watch dog watching.

[glens]

Are you all suggesting that ECM's are an emmissions requirement?

There's absolutely no way to achieve emissions compliance anymore with a carb, and even open-loop EFI is going to be iffy because of the varying fuels in the wild.  We usually push the richer limits while maintaining closed-loop operation when we alter what came from the factory.  That way we really do get the best of both worlds.

[Unbalanced]

There's absolutely no way to achieve emissions compliance anymore with a carb, and even open-loop EFI is going to be iffy because of the varying fuels in the wild.  We usually push the richer limits while maintaining closed-loop operation when we alter what came from the factory.  That way we really do get the best of both worlds.

Glens,

Who is we, you are talking about?  Shop name?   

[glens]

Generic "we".  You, me, whoever's using an ECM programming kit.

[CVOThunder]

One of these days the EPA is going to require motorcycle makers to go to OBDII just like the car folks.  Then things will get interesting; especially the part that requires a sensor after the catalyst to make sure the cat is functioning as required.  With OBDII you also have the capability for an interested party like your local state government to do emissions system compliance checks.  OBDII does the testing for them, all they have to do is connect to the diagnostic port and the ECM/PCM tells them if everything is OK or not.  This tends to make many mods a thing of the past.  Currently there are many places in the USA that require such testing for auto's and light trucks, including the area I live in near Chicago.  Once motorcycles are OBDII compliant, I can see them requiring compliance checks for bikes as well.  Gutting cats will be out, as will aftermarket ECM's and a lot of other mods.  Enjoy the freedom while you can.

Btw, the Powertrain Control Modules in a late model car or truck are much more sophisticated than the ECM in a Harley.  While it's made by Delphi, it isn't necessarily the same thing you'll find in a Chevy.  But it is a pretty sophisticated and capable device in it's own right.

I'm thinking that would be the time H-D has to go water cooled and about the only way I plan on buying another one. Once I'm forced to leave the stock exhaust system alone and unable to compensate for heat and emissions issues, my desires to own will dimenish greatly. After reading so many posts about exploding lifters, scissored cranks, crankshaft endplay, welded and trued cranks to be reliable, wheels being made overseas in China and now plating issues on a $32,000 to $37,000 machine I'm going like WTF. I don't know if there is a year that quality improved and maybe I'm being an alarmist wondering if mine will have problems next but it's like what..we paid good money for this? Is that part of the mystic, wondering if your next ride home will be without a breakdown? Guess I made my purchase thinking that many of the issues in qualilty were a thing of the past. Maybe I should have put my rant someplace else but I got side tracked. I'm jazzed about owning a Harley again, reckon I don't want that to get tarnished.

[SBB]

Generic "we".  You, me, whoever's using an ECM programming kit.

 



SBB

[Unbalanced]

Generic "we".  You, me, whoever's using an ECM programming kit.

Fair enough it was just that your answers were more "shop" like than end user like.    I would have expect to see more I than we responses as most of us don't answer for the others, which is why I asked.

Thanks for clarifying.

[kraut]

... Those old engines were also junk at or before 100,000 miles. My crappy camry using new technology has 320,000 miles on it and going strong... it is a soul-less bitch, but it is reliable and efficient (thanks to modern fuel management).

beg your pardon, but my aunt still has a '62 Bentley S2 twin carb with some 500.000 m on it's first engine, one of the most reliable cars I know. If properly maintained those engines will live almost forever.

[Twolanerider]

beg your pardon, but my aunt still has a '62 Bentley S2 twin carb with some 500.000 m on it's first engine, one of the most reliable cars I know. If properly maintained those engines will live almost forever.

Read a news article last night describing a little old lady's '64 Dodge she'd just stopped driving (because she couldn't see anymore not because the car crapped out).  The car had 564,000 miles.  Had to have been an old Slant 6.  Love 'em or not most of the rest of the US domestic production from that era would never see 1/3rd of those miles without an overhaul.

[LC110]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/93-old-florida-woman-retires-her-64-mercury-204007316.html