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Author Topic: Forced Convection System  (Read 9458 times)

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CVOThunder

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Forced Convection System
« on: June 14, 2012, 02:30:42 PM »

While reading the Love Jug's page I started searching out that product. Well it turns out that another fellow has come up with a different approach of using smaller fans but directly aimed at what he has determined to be the optimal point for cooling the heads. He does a much better job of explaining it so I'll just point you to his website and also the HD forum website (is that cool to put up another website or to mention a vendor like this). Sounds and looks like a beneficial item to me but when combined with an oil cooler fan then slow riding in heat shouldn't be an issue. I emailed him a bit ago about building me a set but using the CVO engine color for fans coatings but his painter says and there is a minimum of 5 lbs of color to plus we'd need to come up with some color info on it. Anyway, I thought the fans were a cool idea but if several of us buy one of these then he can justify the expense of getting the correct powder coating for the CVO engine. Maybe black would disappear easier than blending into the engine color. So enjoy the read and maybe this is something you might be interested in. I'm going to point him towards this thread so he can either join and intro his product or just lurk and see what people think.

Here's his main page.   http://www.wardspartswerks.com/index.html

Beginning page of the HD Forum thread. Lots to read and I haven't gotten through most of it. But it sounds interesting enough that I want to get a set on order now so I'll have a chance to get them for my trip home.

http://www.hdforums.com/forum/touring-models/713596-built-the-best-engine-cooling-system-again.html
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 03:46:04 PM by CVOThunder »
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Re: Forced Convection System
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2012, 06:43:46 AM »

The oil-cooled heads are coming soon, to an H-D store near you.
Scott
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Re: Forced Convection System
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2012, 08:44:45 AM »

The oil-cooled heads are coming soon, to an H-D store near you.
Scott

Are you talking about the water cooled heads on the Touring bikes Scott?  I heard they were waiting for the secret formula coolant that everyone will be forced to buy to maintain their warranty to be finalized and the contract awarded to the lowest Chinese bidder. 


Jerry ;)
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Re: Forced Convection System
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2012, 09:35:52 AM »

Are you talking about the water cooled heads on the Touring bikes Scott?  I heard they were waiting for the secret formula coolant that everyone will be forced to buy to maintain their warranty to be finalized and the contract awarded to the lowest Chinese bidder. 


Jerry ;)

It's a programmatic upgrade from the external oil cooling that was first deployed on the early 110 cylinders.
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CVOThunder

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Re: Forced Convection System
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 10:21:54 AM »

Thanks Scott. Will these retrofit to our bikes as well or only for new ones? You mention coming to a store so I'm guessing they will.

Does make me wonder about head porting and finding a wet gallery. No joy there.

Doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in these fans and it sounds like Jason just wants to work with one forum which is understandable.
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mnm327

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Re: Forced Convection System
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2012, 12:36:30 PM »

Wow, why don't you guys just put watercoolers on your Honda’s?

A good set of cams, and retune does wonders for the heat issues.  Well that and removing the huge heatsync  some call a cyatalic converter also helps.



While reading the Love Jug's page I started searching out that product. Well it turns out that another fellow has come up with a different approach of using smaller fans but directly aimed at what he has determined to be the optimal point for cooling the heads. He does a much better job of explaining it so I'll just point you to his website and also the HD forum website (is that cool to put up another website or to mention a vendor like this). Sounds and looks like a beneficial item to me but when combined with an oil cooler fan then slow riding in heat shouldn't be an issue. I emailed him a bit ago about building me a set but using the CVO engine color for fans coatings but his painter says and there is a minimum of 5 lbs of color to plus we'd need to come up with some color info on it. Anyway, I thought the fans were a cool idea but if several of us buy one of these then he can justify the expense of getting the correct powder coating for the CVO engine. Maybe black would disappear easier than blending into the engine color. So enjoy the read and maybe this is something you might be interested in. I'm going to point him towards this thread so he can either join and intro his product or just lurk and see what people think.

Here's his main page.   http://www.wardspartswerks.com/index.html

Beginning page of the HD Forum thread. Lots to read and I haven't gotten through most of it. But it sounds interesting enough that I want to get a set on order now so I'll have a chance to get them for my trip home.

http://www.hdforums.com/forum/touring-models/713596-built-the-best-engine-cooling-system-again.html
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CVOThunder

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Re: Forced Convection System
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 01:35:24 PM »

Wow, why don't you guys just put watercoolers on your Honda’s?

A good set of cams, and retune does wonders for the heat issues.  Well that and removing the huge heatsync  some call a cyatalic converter also helps.




Nice reply.  ::)

Already did pipes and tune but nothing will cool an air cooled engine stuck in traffic except trying to get some kind of air flow through the engine or oil cooler. And my Honda's already have water cooling but you knew that.
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CVOThunder

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Re: Forced Convection System
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2012, 10:38:12 AM »

Thanks for the link. That would be a good route to go for the bigger engines. In searching that aspect I found this link as well.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/06/12/harley-davidson-headed-for-cooler-waters/

Hard to tell what the future holds.
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Re: Forced Convection System
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2012, 11:28:55 AM »


The Twin Cams have had piston cooling jets since the beginning, and the 103 and 110 engines in the Touring models already have oil coolers as well.  So the only other part mentioned in the Sportster article that the Twin Cams don't already have is the modified oil flow in the heads.  Just pumping more oil to the heads isn't necessarily an answer, since that was part of the original design of the Twin Cam and they found way back when that all they got for the effort was much higher oil temperatures but very little difference in actual head temps.  It was one reason why the Twin Cam engine was delayed a year from the intended launch date, so the engineers could work out the problems with the oiling system.  So if this idea is the supposed salvation of the Twin Cam, I certainly hope they do a better job of figuring out the oil flow, oil temperature, and breather carryover problems than they did the first time.  And they will need to use a much better oil cooler than the one they've been installing on the 103's and 110's.

Since they will need to install a bigger and higher capacity oil cooler, which is something Harley has avoided like the plague because it draws attention to the high heat problem as well as the fact it doesn't fit with the "style is everything" product philosophy, then it makes more sense to me to just water cool the heads and add a radiator.  Ugly oil cooler or ugly radiator, you will definitely get one or the other.  Of course the oil system is cheaper than having a separate water pump and plumbing, so I'd expect H-D to try that first.

Anyway, it ought to be fun watching what they come up with over the next few years.  They definitely need to do something different.


Jerry
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Re: Forced Convection System
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2012, 11:40:38 AM »

Wow, why don't you guys just put watercoolers on your Honda’s?

A good set of cams, and retune does wonders for the heat issues.  Well that and removing the huge heatsync  some call a cyatalic converter also helps.


HEAR HEAR! Having proper airflow through the engine - and the proper TUNE - will indeed do wonders to bring down the engine's temps. We all know that the factory calibration is extremely lean, and runs very hot. Getting rid of the cat, changing the pipes and the cams - and getting the TUNE right - is the key to making the 110" engine run well and not be intolerably hot.

Glad I have a WIZARD nearby...
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Re: Forced Convection System
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2012, 04:24:01 PM »


Anyway, it ought to be fun watching what they come up with over the next few years.  They definitely need to do something different.


Jerry


Jerry, I heard from someone that the next big thing is actually going to be a multitasking heating/cooling/rider comfort/medical applications system.  Harley is supposed to start with oil fed application (because they're lazy, because they can, and because they can sell a retrofit program update later to change what they FUBAR'd the first time) then later update.

The miracle of this multifunction system is a pressurized system that goes from the oil bag through a pump then to the front head, the back head, then the saddle before returning to the oil bag.  There will be a separate thermostat (rider controls being an accessory option) to control the porting through the saddle.  With this system the heads will be coked cooled and the saddle will be heated.  Along with heating the saddle the "hydraulic pulsation resultant from operation of the oil pump in combination with the cyclical harmonics resonating through the oil system stemming from engine operation will serve to massage the rider's gluteal muscles to extend the riding day and alleviate hemorrhoids."

It's a win-win.
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Re: Forced Convection System
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2012, 04:24:47 PM »

Oh, yeah, Harley is only going to warranty the ass-part of the above system if you use Syn3....
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Re: Forced Convection System
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2012, 09:55:48 PM »

HEAR HEAR! Having proper airflow through the engine - and the proper TUNE - will indeed do wonders to bring down the engine's temps. We all know that the factory calibration is extremely lean, and runs very hot. Getting rid of the cat, changing the pipes and the cams - and getting the TUNE right - is the key to making the 110" engine run well and not be intolerably hot.

Glad I have a WIZARD nearby...

until your stuck in one of California's famous 4:00 traffic jams....   Remember the muscle cars back in the 70's,,,,  get stuck in traffic for awhile and you look like old bertha    :P
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Re: Forced Convection System
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2012, 10:11:46 PM »

until your stuck in one of California's famous 4:00 traffic jams....   Remember the muscle cars back in the 70's,,,,  get stuck in traffic for awhile and you look like old bertha    :P

LOL! If you're stuck in a 4:00 PM traffic jam on an air-cooled bike... the best thing to do is pull OFF the highway, find a watering hole, and chill out for awhile!
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