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[Newfie]

I have just installed 2 inch Full sac cores on my 2012 SG CVO and love the rumble but was wondering is there much of a difference if I went and changed the headers for Sound only? I know it will change the heat and more HP with the tuner but Sound is my question

Thanks

[Cvostu]

Little more sound by losing the cat.  But heat and letting the motor breathe should be your main concern here.  The sound will change some, not by much tho.

[Newfie]

Thanks, Should I continue with the full sac headers or go with something else?

[YELLOWBIRD]

Lots of choices out there, but if I were you, I WOULD!

You won't be disappointed!!!


Good Luck and Ride Safe,


YELLOWBIRD

[Cvostu]

Fulsac all the way.  Get their x pipe.   A good tune with a tts and you'll be good to go. 

[Newfie]

Thanks, I will make the call. Is it very difficult to use the TTS Tuner to install the program myself, Can do most work myself.

[barefoot3zk5]

Any word on the release of the new TTS mastertune date

[Midnight Rider]

Thanks, I will make the call. Is it very difficult to use the TTS Tuner to install the program myself, Can do most work myself.

It is not difficult to use the TTS tuner.  The main things when using it is to make sure you have all the latest updates to the software (it checks automatically for on line updates), that you have all the drivers installed for finding the comm ports on your laptop, and to be sure and save the original ECM program...it prompts you to do so.

If you have basic computer skills, you should not have any problems.

Changing the header pipe itself is about a 2 hour job, including beer breaks.  It will make a big difference in performance, and some difference in sound level...not huge, but some.  Removing the Cat is like removing a small potato from the exhaust flow.

[Newfie]

Thanks Midnight Rider, I have no problem using a computer and removing the Exaust should not be a problem. Completed the job on my 06 Ultra but had a Harley dealer to Tune it with there tuner.

Barry

[North Georgia Hawg]

Thanks Midnight Rider, I have no problem using a computer and removing the Exaust should not be a problem. Completed the job on my 06 Ultra but had a Harley dealer to Tune it with there tuner.

Barry

You can tune your bike pretty well with the TTS yourself, without ever putting the bike on a dyno - once you learn how to use it properly...

First, read the Tuning Guide that you can get for free on the http://MasterTune.net website. It tells you pretty much everything you need to do. You need to get a get a starting .MT8 calibration file that most closely matches your build from the TTS library, and use the MasterTune program to set it up for VTune and flash it into your ECM.

You should use the DataMaster program to do a Cam Tune run first, to tell you what to set the cam selector settings to for your cam in the calibration, make the change in the cal using MasterTune, and flash that cal into your ECM. It's critical to get the cam selector settings correct in the calibration for your cams first, before starting the actual "tuning" process. There is a wizard in the MasterTune program that enables you to set the cam selector settings, given the intake valve open and close degrees for your cam, if you don't want to do a Cam Tune run first. But get the cam selector settings correct for your cams before continuing with the tuning process, or you'll be wasting your time later.

You then use the DataMaster program (and a laptop currently) to do VTune data collection runs.

After a run, you then use the VTune program to merge the collected data into the cal file, and it will show you how much of a VE change it's going to make in each RPM/kPa cell. White means essentially no change, progressing through shades of darker and darker pink, and then finally to  red - which tells you that Vtune is making a BIG change in the cell. Yellow means that you didn't collect enough data for that cell during the run - and it's difficult to "fill up" all of the cells during a single DataMaster VTune data collection run.

You then use MasterTune again to flash the updated cal back into the ECM.

You repeat this data collection/merging/flashing process until VTune shows only small changes to the VE tables when it does the data merging. When VTune shows mostly white or very light pink cells, you've got the VE tables pretty well dialed in. You should focus on the low-RPM range (3000 RPM and lower) in your first runs, then do the higher-RPM range during later data collection runs.


A small remote monitor that shows the DataMaster histogram on your handlebar makes it very easy to see which cells for which you've collected sufficient data. Without seeing the histogram cells change color as you ride, you've got no idea which cells you are actually collecting enough data for, and you will end up doing a lot more data collection runs than you need to. With a remote monitor, you can get enough data in probably only 3-4 data collection runs. On the histogram, cells will turn red when you first hit each one, progressing slowly from red to kind of brown and then finally to brighter shades of green as you collect more data for that cell. Bright GREEN is GOOD... it means that you've collected at least 30 hits in that cell, which gives VTune enough data in that cell to make a good adjustment later when it merges the collected data into the cal file.

I use my iPad on a RAM mount on the clutch perch, connected to the laptop in the Tour Pak via an ad-hoc WiFi network... it works pretty well, and without running any wires. A remote USB monitor will update the histogram more quickly as you are riding during the data collection run - but it uses the laptop battery to power it, which will drain the laptop's battery more quickly. I have a very high-capacity 7800mah battery for my laptop that will last for several hours and enables me to do a number of data collection runs/merging/flashing in one long session out on the road in an afternoon.

There is a LOT more you can do with the TTS once you get more proficient with it - you can make tweaks to lots of different tables in the cal... the Main Lambda table, PE Table, Accel Enrichment/Decel Enleanment tables, Timing Advance tables, EGR tables (very important for a good tune but somewhat of a Black Art), etc. You can tweak your tune to your heart's content with the TTS. It's actually rather fun playing with all of the different settings to get the tune better, I think. But maybe I'm just a masochist. At any rate, I DO have a real human Wizard nearby, to whom I pose difficult questions more often than he'd probably prefer... 

[Midnight Rider]

Or the canned map that Steve at Fullsac provides for just the header pipe and 2" cores might will probably work perfectly fine...it does in my bike.  Could it be a bit better...maybe, but I've got good power, no popping, good throttle response, good drivability, good mileage, and less heat, so why mess with it? 

[RoadRunnr]

Or the canned map that Steve at Fullsac provides for just the header pipe and 2" cores might will probably work perfectly fine...it does in my bike.  Could it be a bit better...maybe, but I've got good power, no popping, good throttle response, good drivability, good mileage, and less heat, so why mess with it? 

The thought "Because I Can" comes to mind

[North Georgia Hawg]

Or the canned map that Steve at Fullsac provides for just the header pipe and 2" cores might will probably work perfectly fine...it does in my bike.  Could it be a bit better...maybe, but I've got good power, no popping, good throttle response, good drivability, good mileage, and less heat, so why mess with it? 

If you're happy with the way your bike runs, that's awesome!

Steve's maps are very good - but a canned map can never be spot-on for any specific engine - due to manufacturing tolerances in the various parts, the way the engine has worn in, and the way a specific engine breathes. They all breathe differently - even with the exact same equipment. It will be close - maybe 80% of ideal for your engine - but in my view that's still leaving a large amount of tuning potential lying on the shop floor. That's what the TTS can really do for you... enable you to dial it in much more closely for the way your bike actually breathes... and fairly easily, using the TTS software. If you do some VTune runs, you might be surprised at how much adjusting of the VE tables that VTune actually ends up doing using the actual data captured from your engine.

The way I see it... I've invested $470 in a TTS MasterTune and cables - and I intend use its capabilities to get my tune as good as possible, instead of just using it to load a canned map.  Some might not really care about that final 20% or so of tuning potential... but I sure do! 

[Midnight Rider]

I have often wondered about that very subject, because I've never really seen any hard data to support the fact that every motor is significantly different than the one next to it.  I know there are tolerances that can build up in any given engine if you are unfortunate enough to get the one that has all the maximum specifications for any given critical component, but I'd like to know how many motors that actually has an adverse effect on...or, enough to make a difference with tuning parameters.

I'd like to see some data from a tune done on a given bike with a 110" motor, then see the data from 10 other bikes with the same configuration of exhaust and intake to see the variance.  I know that everybody says that every motor is different, but I've never read an article to support that assertion with real data.

I'm not saying there are not any differences, but would just like to know if those differences would be statistically significant.

[North Georgia Hawg]

I have often wondered about that very subject, because I've never really seen any hard data to support the fact that every motor is significantly different than the one next to it.  I know there are tolerances that can build up in any given engine if you are unfortunate enough to get the one that has all the maximum specifications for any given critical component, but I'd like to know how many motors that actually has an adverse effect on...or, enough to make a difference with tuning parameters.

I'd like to see some data from a tune done on a given bike with a 110" motor, then see the data from 10 other bikes with the same configuration of exhaust and intake to see the variance.  I know that everybody says that every motor is different, but I've never read an article to support that assertion with real data.

I'm not saying there are not any differences, but would just like to know if those differences would be statistically significant.

A quick way to tell would be to do a couple of VTune runs and see what changes it makes to your VE tables. Not difficult...