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[2NinerSG]

I concur, after having an 01' 96 inch Heritage and a 12 FLHX 103 CI, the 110 street glide SE3 is a rattle trap.

Profit drives public companies, most do what is minimally necessary to sell a product.

My guess is - this much metal in motion on an air cooled, portable boom box platform needs to have lots of metal to metal CLEARANCE!

My 110 sounded like someone shaking a 1 pound coffee can partially filled with pennies. I fantasised that the 1000 mile oil change would quiet things down. I even thought that HD may have retarded the engine timing during the "break in" period. With a face void of emotion, the HD service guy told me this is the nature of the beast.

The EITMS was kicking in at every traffic light. the engine pops & backfires at startup. At nearly every traffic light, the bike coughs like an 80 yr old Marlboro man! What a ride! I'm thinking this must be just like it was in 1903!

Then I remembered a product I used years ago and thought I would give Gene Smith a call in York PA for some ideas. I was able to make significant improvement when Gene made a few suggestions. I changed the oil AGAIN at 1800 miles as Gene suggested. I dropped all of the Syn3 for AMS oil 20-50. This resulted in a major improvement in noise reduction, engine performance and engine heat. I noticed the front end rises much more when twisting the throttle. This one change brought the bike more in line with my GSXR 750 acceleration.

EITMS rarely kicks in.

The spits and sputters were largely corrected by running a ratio of 1.5/3.5 gallons of 100 UL Sunoco to 93 octane. - its expensive but I don't have the time for the drama at the HD dealer.

Until it flies apart, I might as well ride it!

[mjb765]

I dropped my bike off at the dealer today.  The service manager heard what I am hearing.  One of the techs came over to me and told me he heard it loud and clear and told me not to worry about it...he'll fix it.  So, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.  They sounded pretty confident that they could get rid of all that racket.  I have to wonder if all of you folks are hearing the same thing that I hear on mine.  It's pretty bad.  I also took a stethoscope to it and it seemed like it was coming from the upper part of the rear cylinder and the lower part of the front cylinder.  That part was bit baffling.  I'm hoping to hear something positive from the shop some time this week.  Again, mine is so bad that while riding down the highway, my friends can hear the tapping on my bike when they ride near me on theirs.  This is my second 110" and the other one never made this kind of noise.

I hope they fix what you are hearing...please keep us updated on the results.

[zeflash]

Feedback on the changes that have been made on my 2007 SERK;
I had the oil pump ensemble changed to the "SCREAMIN’ EAGLE HYDRAULIC CAM CHAIN TENSIONER AND HIGH-FLOW OIL PUMP UPGRADE", and had the wood cam 54 installed.
It's been two weeks and a couple hundred km done on it, and what I can say is that the overall engine noise has been WAY reduced. I don't really know what exactly was making so much noise before - a general rasping noise, like something not well lubricated enough I guess in retrospect - but with the new pump it's night & day. I can hear my exhaust much better. I can talk to my passenger when stopped with the engine at idle without having to shout, while it was necessary to do so before.
So that's a very good thing.

The stock oil pump flows plenty of oil with plenty of pressure.  If you're changing cams, I'd go ahead and put better lifters and adjustable pushrods in there too, as the cost difference is just the parts.  And not necessarily HD parts, but if you're dealing with a dealer to do the work, using non HD parts may be an issue.

I have a oil pressure manometer on mine; previous pump was showing between 10 to 15 when idle, and 25 to 30 at 3500rpm; new pumps shows pressures between 25 and 30 at idle, and up to 55 when revving up the engine. I'd say big difference. And I  can hear the difference too, although it might be combined factors.
The mechanics seemed to believe that the regular pump on the CVO engines is way too weak; they also changed it on the boss' 2012 CVO street glide and it lowered the general noise, although in a lesser way than what it did on mine. They were kind of amazed how better it was.

Now, you'd think I'm perfectly happy. Sadly, the ticking is still there. It's even *more* present given the rest of the engine noise has been lowered. It does it strong when the engine is hot, nearly not at all when it's cold. The guys took an hour to go around the engine, listening to the internals and trying to pinpoint the origin, and we believe that in my case, it's valve train noise, because it seems to come a bit more from the left side of the engine, and it's definitely coming from the top of it rather than the bottom.
As usual, the answer was: nothing we can do about it, it's because of the new cams you put in. It's the valve that come down to hard or are rebounding or something like that because of the ramp of the cam. But it was doing it with the 255 that were in before! Now it's doing it differently, but it's still present.

This sound is nothing has loud as it seems to be for other people in this thread. I mean, I'm not sure that if I was riding next to my bike driven by someone else I would be able to hear it, but it still annoys the heck out of me. Given the feedback from some knowledgeable forumers, I'd say my next plan of action would be to change pushrods & lifters. That's gonna cost me again, my wife isn't going to be happy, but it's taking joy out of my rides!

[Unbalanced]

couple quick questions

Did you install a woods cam or a Andrews 54?  If woods which one?

Did you use SE pushrods?   If so how many flats were they set to?   In many cases the request is 15 flats which is 2 1/2 turns, but a lot of people set to them 3 turns or 18 flats as this helps quiet the valve train a bit might be something to consider if this is the case for you.

[Midnight Rider]

I have a oil pressure manometer on mine; previous pump was showing between 10 to 15 when idle, and 25 to 30 at 3500rpm; new pumps shows pressures between 25 and 30 at idle, and up to 55 when revving up the engine. I'd say big difference. And I  can hear the difference too, although it might be combined factors.
The mechanics seemed to believe that the regular pump on the CVO engines is way too weak; they also changed it on the boss' 2012 CVO street glide and it lowered the general noise, although in a lesser way than what it did on mine. They were kind of amazed how better it was.

This sound is nothing has loud as it seems to be for other people in this thread. I mean, I'm not sure that if I was riding next to my bike driven by someone else I would be able to hear it, but it still annoys the heck out of me. Given the feedback from some knowledgeable forumers, I'd say my next plan of action would be to change pushrods & lifters. That's gonna cost me again, my wife isn't going to be happy, but it's taking joy out of my rides!

Pressure and flow are two different things.  You can only move a set volume of oil through the engine, regardless of pressure, depending of course on the design of the orifices that provide oil to the various components. If you have a pinhole sized orifice to push the oil through, there is a point at which the amount of pressure will make absolutely no difference in the amount of oil going through the hole.  The shape of the hole also makes a difference.  I would maintain that 10-12 PSI at idle on a HD engine is gracious plenty of pressure, and 30 PSI at 3K RPM would be as well.  Excess pressure just results in bypassing.  It makes people feel better to see more pressure on the gauge, but whether it is necessary or even a good thing is a different matter entirely.  After working for many years on systems that used extremely large pumps to get chilled water through closed loop building systems, I can tell you with certainty that increased pressure alone does not mean a thing, and in fact can be detrimental to system design parameters, with regards to flow, heat transfer, etc.

[spydglide]

Pressure and flow are two different things.  You can only move a set volume of oil through the engine, regardless of pressure, depending of course on the design of the orifices that provide oil to the various components. If you have a pinhole sized orifice to push the oil through, there is a point at which the amount of pressure will make absolutely no difference in the amount of oil going through the hole.  The shape of the hole also makes a difference.  I would maintain that 10-12 PSI at idle on a HD engine is gracious plenty of pressure, and 30 PSI at 3K RPM would be as well.  Excess pressure just results in bypassing.  It makes people feel better to see more pressure on the gauge, but whether it is necessary or even a good thing is a different matter entirely.  After working for many years on systems that used extremely large pumps to get chilled water through closed loop building systems, I can tell you with certainty that increased pressure alone does not mean a thing, and in fact can be detrimental to system design parameters, with regards to flow, heat transfer, etc.

TC, you're just trying to confuse us with the facts.  If we want to worry about not having enough oil pressure, you are not going to change a thing with your very good explanation of this situation.  (but it does make me feel better for a bit, anyway)  har.  spyder

[miker]

The 5 psi(or less)  in my old shovel was plenty to get it squirting out all over...shoulda never capped the chaim oiler off...

[hdguy1]

I've had my '12 CVO SG since March, it's my first bike with a 110" motor.  I know it's known that the 110's have some tapping that evidently is a result of valve train noise.  I had a 96" for 4 years and a 103" for about 5 months.  Of course neither of these motors had the noises that the 110 does.  So with that as much as I really like everything else about this bike I am having a difficult time getting use to the tapping coming from my bike.  About 3,300 miles now.  Everytime I hear it I cannot help but to think that something is amiss with the motor comparing to what I knew from the previous motors.  I even had 2 Harley techs check it out just to be sure and of course they say it is normal for the 110 motor.  Maybe so but man I hate it.  I keep telling myself to give it more time and I will get use to it but it just doesn't seem to be happening.  Just curious if anyone else out there that are new to the 110 motor is having the same issue I am having and what your thoughts might be on the matter.  Does it bother you?  Did you just get use to it? etc.  And no, I don't want to just crank up the radio to drown it out or put on obnoxiously loud mufflers.  I have a Fullsac setup and like it as is.

So if I decided to go into the engine internally what would be the best thing to consider doing that would help with the tapping or better yet eliminate it completely and not break the bank?

Thanks

I have a 2012 SESG with the same issue. It has 13,000 km (8,000 miles) on the engine. It has been like that since about the 1000 mile mark when I started having oil pressure and oil temp problems. It recently got a new crank, pistons, rings, cams, and lifters. It had been to the dealer 4 times before they contacted Harley and removed the motor for inspection. It still has the same noise as it did even with a rebuilt motor. It drives me nuts but as long as it runs and has normal oil pressure, that's all I can ask of it. You may just have to live with it.

[Midnight Rider]

Yea, the problems people are having with their engines with regards to lifter failure, oil pressure, etc, etc, etc are not related to pressure issues, or the ability of the stock pump to deliver enough oil, OR the type of oil one is using if it is a high quality synthetic...it's more about wobbling cranks, poor metallurgy, and cheap assed parts.  It seems like it's becoming a given in the HD Universe that lifter replacement, and while you're in there, cam bearing replacement, is going to be at least a one time thing 80% of us are going to have to do at some point in time, if we keep the bikes long enough.  That's shameful.  But, if you want to play, it seems you've got to pay.  If mine makes it to the point of nearing the ESP period, I'll just take the damn thing apart and do the necessary parts changing to keep it going for as long as I can ride it.  I won't ever say never, but this is likely my last Harley...for one, I really like this bike, and two, I'll probably never be able to afford another one.  And then there's always that pesky age thing....

[Willie D]

My 2012 FLSTSE3 B-motor has the same issues, the dealer can't / won't do anything yet. 10,750 miles and it hasn't blown up yet. So that being said, guess I will ride out the warranty period and see what happens. I don't hear it with my helmet on and ear plugs.

HD QC has really gone down hill since my 2002 FLHRSEI 95" - might be time to look at Triumph ? 

WD

[willyB]

Just came back from an 1800 miles run to Florida. I'm convinced that this motor will not last too long. At 19,000+ miles the noise from this motor is shocking. It's basically a box of clattery bolts.

When you're concerned your vehicle will not make a long trip you begin to question keeping the machine.

My next bike will not be a Harely Davidson. It's too bad that I will no longer buy an American Made motorcycle. I think I can step out of the "biker world" to ride something that will not make me wonder if it's going to stay together.

BMW and Honda are on the short list.

[06cuse]

After 30 HD's gotta say a bit flustered on this one ~ the 12 RGC CVO has a new Tick from the rear head. I have a 10 Ultra with a 103 and 71k on the clock, had an 06 SE Ultra with 93k on the clock ~ yes I bought em new and put all of the miles on them. Both of the ultras were not uncommon for me as far as miles ~ Sold RK's that had never had a single issue just below the 100k mark... So I have had the Skunk less than two months and I have 6100 miles on it and yesterday a new Tick... I double checked heat shields, and anything else that might be a minor/quick fix... Then I dig around the tool box and find my Stethescope... Yep, Rear Cylinder ~ No codes thrown, great oil pressure ~ just a new tick. The dealer had the bike 8 months (his demo) and had 110 Stage III'd it. So it has 10.5/1 Pistons/Rings/259e's and unfortunately the "perfect fit" push Rods. On both of my 103's I had the rear exhaust valve guide come at 40k/80 on the SE Ultra and at 30k on the 10 Ultra LTD. The 10's Heads were the Replaced with FM type b's, 777's, Feuling Camplate/Oil Pump.... No more issues. I have an appointment with the boutique today to resolve the issue and the dreaded 35-40 mph handlebar wobble. Took everything I could do yesterday not to disassemble my top end. I built the motor in my 10 and enjoy the work. Do all my own work since everytime someone else touches it I have to resolve the issues they have caused. I am not impressed with most mechanics attention to detail or lack of using a torque wrench on a fastener in sequence... So I have a Noticable New Tick ~ Not in the Primary ~ had four compensators replaced on the 10 so the compensator/primary noise is one I am familiar with. According to the Stethescope it is originating form the Head/Jug of the Rear Cylinder. I will keep ya posted on the boutiques conclusion. Since they do not ride 30 -40k per year their sense of urgency does not normally meet my standard, guess we'll see. A bit flustered at this point and hope the 110 meets my expectations, overall the 103's did a good job, sad thing is that I have meet evo owners on baggers that have never been into the motors with six digits or more on the clock. The Evo's I rode I never had to go into... I understand the new emission standards but you would think for the money we all spend on these things that the MoCo could at least put a quality product under our tails. I should not have to add aftermarket items and or Screamin Eagle parts to make my motor more dependable.... On a side note I have already sent a set of 110 heads to Jamie at Fuel moto to rework, my thought was when I hit the 30 to 40k mark next year I would have a set ready to bolt on... Did not realize I would not even make 7k on the clock.... I love this RG, and worse case scenario I can and will install a 120r or upgrade the components I have in the 110 till it is at least as quiet as my 103's

[06cuse]

So the Skunk sits at the boutique ~ here is the short of it ~ Fist Fight to get them to Adjust the neck bearings (we'll see if the wobble gets resolved) won't know if I won that one or not till I pick it up. They tried to explain to me that is a maintenance issue and I should pay for it. I politely explained to them it was a safety issue and I would not be paying for it ~ I would do the work myself before I paid.... Round two ~ tech diagnoses bike with "Excessive Valve Train Noise from rear cylinder. My guess is the got that from me ~ anyhow they seen to think I have a lifter issue ~ I'm not so sure on this since my stethoscope said it was a valve/rockerarm/or pushrod... But I am awaiting the tear down so they can resolve and get me riding again. Crazy thing is I rode 20 miles there and no loss of power ~ so kind of interesting. Could be a lifter just would surprise me ~ the other discussion was over the Stage III ~ they had to verify with the VIN that the bike was still eligible for the factory/extended warranty with the work being completed at the dealership it was purchased from... The skunk was the dealer's demo so I was confident the paperwork was all correct, And fortunately for me the dealer demo I purchased the administrative work had been done appropriately ~ I'll keep ya posted ~ SemperFi

So the call comes ~ replace lifters ~ slight improvement ~ So next week we go into the Cam Cover and see what else is amiss ~ even to loud for the boutique to turn it loose ~ now I'm thinkin ~ Billet Camplate/Hi Flow Oil Pump/Hydraulic Lifters/Screamin Adjustable Push Rods since we are there... We'll see what the verdict is....

Constant ~ Cold Hot all RPM's ~ I am on my 30 HD and had many TwinCams ~ never heard a racket like this ~ way beyond normal.... My 103 in the LTD makes a little racket ~ sounds like a typical HD ~ this one sounds way different and is definitely a new noise ~ SemperFi

Constant ~ Cold Hot all RPM's ~ I am on my 30 HD and had many TwinCams ~ never heard a racket like this ~ way beyond normal.... My 103 in the LTD makes a little racket ~ sounds like a typical HD ~ this one sounds way different and is definitely a new noise ~ I suggested a leakdown test but apparently parts swapping is a more efficient method of diagnosing...
__________________

[06cuse]

 I went to a boutique on the 06 when the second head went on the 103.  The einstein 25 year old looks at me and informs me that all 103's make noise ~ I politely informed him that I had purchased the bike new and had through sheer determination and stupidity put all 80,000 miles on the clock and was confident I knew how the bike should sound ~ so at the boutique yesterday when I mentioned a stethoscope and a leak down test the Service Director & Service Writer both had the deer in the headlights look ~ worst part is our lives are in the hands of the boutiques that push mechanics to generate profits on each and every job.  Attention to detail and pride in workmanship is for the most part gone in the dealerships ~ only positive note is that after installing a new set of lifters that I did not need they decided not to return the bike to me because the problem was only slightly improved and not completely resolved ~ I am confident I have a Slighty bent valve ~ maybe only a few degrees ~ a leakdown test would confirm this ~ however they are going to tear into the cam chest only to discover that the CVO RG probably has an issue with a valve ~ I could be wrong and hope I am ~ a new head would have to come from the MoCo if I am correct and could take a week or two ~ my guess at this point is that I am correct ~ I have the service manual and read it ~ not sure if they do.... O Well ~ I'll get it back when I get it back ~ anytime I have an issue the bikes seem to end up with better/longer lasting components in them.....  I like big power combined with dependability ~

[06cuse]

So the Skunk sits in my garage ~ My life is back to normal:)  The final Diagnosis after replacing the lifters was the Cam Drive Retention Bolt Sheered off ~ This is the bolt that hold the large sprocket when you are looking at your camplate.  The Bolt was sheered at the lower end way up in the Camplate ~ so the remainder of it had to be drilled out ~ the bike is quiet again and runs great ~ took it about 80 miles to double check.  Thanks for the support and ideas ~ once again I heard " We've never seen this before "...  When the bolt was removed you could not tell it was missing the last 3/8 of an inch at a glance.  The Tech had another tech come over to assist in finding the problem.