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[HDGearHead]

i was told at or above a 100 hp the 2.25 are gona work better ,that info was from the man that makes them. my bike with the DX pippe & 2.25 cores , only mods at this point , dynoed out at 92.9 hp 118.1 trq. ?? hope that helps??

I've been told the same.

Toddsters build should easily make more than 100 HP.  However Doc stated that he would prefer 2" cores with this build.  Since Docs the expert when it comes to tuning, I am hoping that he can school me as to when a 2.25" core would be preferred/more beneficial than 2" core.  I know that bigger isn't always better (or so she tells me ; I'm curious as to when he thinks it is.

[Cvostu]

I have x-b pipe with 2" cores.  Bike runs so well with a tts and Andrews 54h I won't ever touch it.   Steve George convinced me to go with 2" cores and that the noise would not be very noticeable.   Plus with  a 110 I was better off.  I'm glad I listened.  I'm really happy with the whole thing and I hear my radio just fine.  2"   He knows his stuff. 

[Doc 1]

I've been told the same.

Toddsters build should easily make more than 100 HP.  However Doc stated that he would prefer 2" cores with this build.  Since Docs the expert when it comes to tuning, I am hoping that he can school me as to when a 2.25" core would be preferred/more beneficial than 2" core.  I know that bigger isn't always better (or so she tells me ; I'm curious as to when he thinks it is.

It's simple....packages is the goal, you need all your parts to work together. If I have a 255 cam I have a build that is all about tq at 2000 to 4000 rpm so I want a pipe that works well at these rpms and the 2'' baffle does just that. If I have a 2.25 or a 2.50 baffle it will not work well in the lower rpms however at 4000 rpm and up they will work just fine. Personall yI can care less about 6000 rpm cause 99.999% of my customers don't ride there....they do ride between 2000 and 4000 so what do I have to gain with a larger baffle.
The other thing is the more back pressure I have the better the 02 sensors work and the better the tune comes out....I want the bike to run smooth from 750 rpm to 5500 rpm and the 2'' baffle works the best in that area.
Doc

[HDGearHead]

It's simple....packages is the goal, you need all your parts to work together. If I have a 255 cam I have a build that is all about tq at 2000 to 4000 rpm so I want a pipe that works well at these rpms and the 2'' baffle does just that. If I have a 2.25 or a 2.50 baffle it will not work well in the lower rpms however at 4000 rpm and up they will work just fine. Personall yI can care less about 6000 rpm cause 99.999% of my customers don't ride there....they do ride between 2000 and 4000 so what do I have to gain with a larger baffle.
The other thing is the more back pressure I have the better the 02 sensors work and the better the tune comes out....I want the bike to run smooth from 750 rpm to 5500 rpm and the 2'' baffle works the best in that area.
Doc

Thanks Doc.  I'm getting a lot of mixed messaged about the direction that I should go and I'm not sure what I should do.  I don't want to spend thousands of dollars dyno tuning different parts combinations trying to find the right setup.  I also don't want to be riding around second guessing my build (should I have done this instead of that).  Like you, I want my power between 2K and 4.5K RPM.

I've got a 110 with:
- T-MAN CVO Street Performer Kit - Includes:

• CVO Street Performer Heads (2.130 intake and 1.630 exhaust valves)
• T-Man 555 Cams (same grind as T-MAN 625 but lower lift
• Forged Wisco 10.5:1 Pistons
• Cometic .040 Head Gaskets
• Final Static Compression Ratio set to 10.7:1

- Darkhorse Crank with Timken
- 50 MM Throttle Body with 4.35 injectors
- Fullsac C Pipe with 2" cores

My dealer tuned it with the SEPST and got 116 HP and 122 TQ (dyno chart attached - the names where changed to protect the innocent)

The tuner had to set the cubes to 145 and decrease the injector size from 4.35 to 4.3 to set the VE tables.  The tuner just keep v tuning and changing cubes until he was able to get the VE table out of the red.  However, the tuner never looked at or monitored the injector duration.  I've since learned that the injectors are to small.

After a lot of research and consultation, I've decided to make the following changes:

• Install SE 5.3 g/s Injectors
• Install Fullsac Xtreme D pipe

What I am uncertain of is if whether or not the following would be beneficial or harmful in my build.

• 6.2 g/s Injectors
• SE 58mm TBW throttle body
• Fullsac 2.25" cores

I have all of the above mentioned parts on hand so I can choose to install some, all or none of them.  What are your thoughts on:

1. Installing the SE 58mm throttle body.  About 50% of the supposed experts that I've asked tell me that it will move the power to the right while the other 50% said that is more applicable to cable operated TBs and that the ECM on a TBW system will maintain good low RPM venture velocity by progressively opening the butterfly based on rpm and throttle position (won't open it fully regardless of throttle grip position until after 3K rpm).   I no longer know what to believe and really don't want to spend the money on dyno time to find out.   Since I'm sure you've seen it all during your years tuning, what are your thoughts on this?  Stick with the 50mm or go for the 58mm?


2. Replacing the 2" cores with 2.25" cores. My thoughts are to tune it with the 2" cores installed and then while its still on the dyno, swap them with the 2.25" cores and see if they help or hurt.)  I have two complete muffler set, 1 with 2" and one with 2.25" so the swap would be quick and easy.

3. Going with 6.2 g/s injectors instead of the 5.3 g/s.  I want to right size these so I am thinking of retuning with the 5.3s and see whether the dyno shows that if I need to go larger.

I have a credit with the dealer that build the motor and did the initial tune so I am going to give them another crack at it.  Once I'm confident in the parts combination, I'm going to make an appointment with you (have to travel across country to get to you so the parts combinations has to be right when I get there).  I have both the TTS and SEPST (dealer is going to tune with the SEPST).  I assume that you prefer to tune with the TTS which I am cool with.

Regards,

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

The 58 T/B will work fine ,IF the engine has the ability to breathe more efficiently with a larger t/b than it will produce more power at that given rpm. Example a 107 CI engine with CNC heads 54 andrews cam and a fat cat pipe. Back to back tested a 55 HPI to a stock t/b only gain was tq. Engine made 106 hp both times however tq increased from 115 to 120.

I ran a 58 on my 107,  it made 121 tq and 123 hp ..   FBW unit is controlled through a tuner

5.3 inj should be fine

Swapping mufflers and looking at a WOT pull will not tell you the whole story. But it would show you what one makes the most 

[Doc 1]

I agree with Steve (GMR)
Since your tuner messed with the injector size in the map, monitering the pulse of the injector is all skewed numbers now. There is really no need to change the injector size with the TTS to get enough fuel.....the base maps are much better than the other unit.
Doc

[HDGearHead]

Steve (GMR) and Doc, Thank you very much for the advice.


I'll install the 58mm TB with the 5.3 g/s injectors, Fullsac D Pipe with 2" cores and let the dealers tuner re-tune it on the dyno with the SEPST (burn up the money they owe me). 

While one the dyno, we'll swap in the mufflers with the 2.25" cores and see if it makes more power in the 2K to 4.5K rpm range. I had planned to base my decision on which made more power in my desired rpm range.  Since Steve (GMR) mentioned that a WOT dyno run will not tell the whole story regarding the mufflers, what should I looking for when evaluating which to keep installed? 

Once re-tuned, I'll install a new tire, put a few miles on it and note how it runs. 

Provided its makes the power where it I want it, I'll schedule an appointment with you (Doc) to have it tuned with the TTS.  I really welcome making a trip to Florida now to get away from the crazy weather we've been having up north this year.

Regards,

Tom

[Doc 1]

Steve (GMR) and Doc, Thank you very much for the advice.


I'll install the 58mm TB with the 5.3 g/s injectors, Fullsac D Pipe with 2" cores and let the dealers tuner re-tune it on the dyno with the SEPST (burn up the money they owe me). 

While one the dyno, we'll swap in the mufflers with the 2.25" cores and see if it makes more power in the 2K to 4.5K rpm range. I had planned to base my decision on which made more power in my desired rpm range.  Since Steve (GMR) mentioned that a WOT dyno run will not tell the whole story regarding the mufflers, what should I looking for when evaluating which to keep installed? 

Once re-tuned, I'll install a new tire, put a few miles on it and note how it runs. 

Provided its makes the power where it I want it, I'll schedule an appointment with you (Doc) to have it tuned with the TTS.  I really welcome making a trip to Florida now to get away from the crazy weather we've been having up north this year.

Regards,

Tom

It was 95 here today Tom....so we are ready for you....lol.
Look on the graph at 2000 to 4000 rpm to see if you lost or gained.
Doc

[HDGearHead]

It was 95 here today Tom....so we are ready for you....lol.
Look on the graph at 2000 to 4000 rpm to see if you lost or gained.
Doc

LOL... Most of my family lives in Ocala, Orlando, Kissimme and Bradenton.  They constantly tell me the same thing...   

We went from more than 6" of rain over Wed/Thur to snow today.   I'm so over winter.... 

My riding season was cut short last year and I am getting really anxious to get on the road again.  Last year I hit and killed a deer riding my FLSTN with my wife on the back (thankfully nobody was hurt expect the deer...a few rosebuds in the shorts though) and then had a lifter fail during a ride for Autism that required my FLHTCUSE5 motor to be rebuilt.

As soon as my youngest son finishes High School in 2 years, I'm moving to Florida or Arizona (wife's family lives there)

I'll keep an eye on the graph and post a copy after they've re-tuned it.  I'm Looking forward to meeting you and letting you do your magic to my ride.

[RedEagle]

Holy Cow....its still snowing here..!!

[timo482]

snowed 7 inches here yesterday, was mostly gone by the end of the day, is snowing just north of here now - was 50 today, snow this afternoon - go figure

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