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[hogwild11]

Oh, did you say TUNE?  I was hoping it wouldn't come to that.  I noticed your list of accessories include a special tuner.  Which one would you recommend for mine?  Thanks for your feedback. 

[Midnight Rider]

Oh, did you say TUNE?  I was hoping it wouldn't come to that.  I noticed your list of accessories include a special tuner.  Which one would you recommend for mine?  Thanks for your feedback. 

You cannot change out the entire exhaust system WITHOUT modifying the tune in the ECM...unless you want to burn your engine up from running it so lean it melts down (not literally, but it will do damage). You can put slip on mufflers on the stock header pipe and not have to tune, though the bike can benefit from a good tune, regardless.  But if you change the header pipe, thus removing the CAT, you MUST. The SE Tuner is not "special", but merely one tool that is available to properly tune your bike after changes to the exhaust system, or other changes.

The very first thing you need to do is find a REPUTABLE tuner...that does NOT mean your local HD dealership.  Just owning a Dyno does not mean the person operating it is qualified to do so.  Talk to the tuner you find and see what product he prefers to use.

Or, you can order the header pipe, cores of your choice, and TTS tuner from Fullsac...all for under $1100...and use the provided map.  You will very likely not have to do another thing to the bike regarding tuning.  Your choice. 

Of this I am 100% sure:  Vance and Hines will NOT be able to provide a map for their exhaust system, so if you go that route, be prepared to find a good tuner and spend an additional $300 for Dyno time.  Do NOT let V&H tell you that their Fuelpak "tuner" will do the job...it is a total waste of money.

[DtyHarry]

Good Advice, you seem to know a lot about this.  What do you think about the Zipper-Thundermax - my mechanic says this is the best way to go and no dyno tune is required??

[CVO Brian]

Tuner is a must when you change exhaust system or the bike will not perform to its capacity. Myself, I use the Harley Screamin Eagle Race Tuner. TTS is also one I would use and others here swear by. do it right the first time brother you will not regret it.
Now with that being said, there are canned tunes ( maps ) that are plug and play but they often fail in my experience.

[Midnight Rider]

Good Advice, you seem to know a lot about this.  What do you think about the Zipper-Thundermax - my mechanic says this is the best way to go and no dyno tune is required??

There are others here who are much more knowledgeable than me on this subject matter.  I know what has worked for ME and several others I know personally.  I have no vested interest in one product over another, but I like to keep things as simple as possible and go with what I KNOW works and will require the least amount of work and be the most cost effective.  For me (and for a whole bunch of other people) that is the Fullsac exhaust, TTS, and the map provided from Fullsac.  My bike required no other tuning...could I have squeezed another little bit out of it by going to a Dyno?  Perhaps.  Is 2 more ft lbs of TQ worth $300 to me? No.  If I had what I KNOW to be a great tuner close by, yes, I might have taken the bike to him/her and had it tweaked a bit, but my bike ran perfectly fine with the "canned" map.  I do not subscribe to the old school of thought that "every HD engine is different and requires it's own "special" tune."  Modern manufacturing technology produces engines that are 95% identical, even on an engine design that is basically 50 years old.  There are, of course, exceptions to every rule.  So I did the exhaust change, TTS download/upload on my bike myself and could not have been happier.  I spent $1100 on the whole thing.  Then I spent $3000 on suspension upgrades because I would rather have a bike that handles well than one that will beat bike X in a drag race.  I don't drag race my bike, but I can ride with almost anyone everywhere else and won't be left behind for lack of engine performance.

For me, a T-Max would be my LAST choice for a number of reasons that I won't get into a pissing contest over.  I simply do not believe the hype, and I know for a fact that their customer support is not the best in the world.  Plus, I am of the school of thought that I do not want to pull out a perfectly functioning ECM and replace it with an aftermarket piece for several other reasons.

[DtyHarry]

Thanks, good advice.

[ftmyerscobra]

D & D Fatcat I have more people chase me down to tell me that my bike sounds great then you can imagine .

[CVO Brian]

Couldn't agree more on T-max. Seen many pulled out and put on the shelf. Also DD Fat Cat does sound Bad A.....
As you see , you have several options. let me retract a bit on the " canned Tune " I would do this way before I would do T-Max or another ECM replacement Tune. Nothing Wrong with Canned tune for the bike and I also agree that they are all 95% Identical engines. Your bike will be plenty fast and have plenty of torque with the pipe and Tune. Spend your money on comfort , Bars, Suspension, Seat, etc...

[chiefs584ever]

I am taking delivery of a 13 CVO Ultra Classic on July 6th.  Dealer is putting Vance and Hines Dresser Duals on for head pipes to get rid of the flamethrower (cat).  My question is this.  Will a flash to the stock ECM be safe, or does it need a race tuner.  Appears to me that the 13 has already addressed the ECM with the high flow breather that comes stock on the bike.  Don't want to throw the money at the race tuner if it is not needed.  Planning on leaving the stock mufflers on for now.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[CowboyBagger]

From my past experience, the Vance and Hines Dresser Duals will require a different tuner (TTS or SERT) and a dyno technician that really knows what they are doing.  The average run of the mill HD dealership dyno guy will struggle getting the bike dialed in with those pipes.  Another option is an auto tuner (Powervision), better than a poor dyno tech, not as good as a good dyno tech with a TTS.

Cowboy

[TinSpinner]

I am taking delivery of a 13 CVO Ultra Classic on July 6th.  Dealer is putting Vance and Hines Dresser Duals on for head pipes to get rid of the flamethrower (cat).  My question is this.  Will a flash to the stock ECM be safe, or does it need a race tuner.  Appears to me that the 13 has already addressed the ECM with the high flow breather that comes stock on the bike.  Don't want to throw the money at the race tuner if it is not needed.  Planning on leaving the stock mufflers on for now.

Thanks in advance for your help.

You may want to do a little more research before you settle for true duals. I know they sound good and look nice, but you lose a lot of torque with that set-up.  You will need a tuner with any pipe swap though due to the difference of a free flowing exhaust versus a restrictive stock with the cat, plenty of options for those too. It comes down to personal preference though so good luck with whatever you decide.

[AZ Sparky]

You cannot change out the entire exhaust system WITHOUT modifying the tune in the ECM...unless you want to burn your engine up from running it so lean it melts down (not literally, but it will do damage). You can put slip on mufflers on the stock header pipe and not have to tune, though the bike can benefit from a good tune, regardless.  But if you change the header pipe, thus removing the CAT, you MUST. The SE Tuner is not "special", but merely one tool that is available to properly tune your bike after changes to the exhaust system, or other changes.

The very first thing you need to do is find a REPUTABLE tuner...that does NOT mean your local HD dealership.  Just owning a Dyno does not mean the person operating it is qualified to do so.  Talk to the tuner you find and see what product he prefers to use.

Or, you can order the header pipe, cores of your choice, and TTS tuner from Fullsac...all for under $1100...and use the provided map.  You will very likely not have to do another thing to the bike regarding tuning.  Your choice.  

Of this I am 100% sure:  Vance and Hines will NOT be able to provide a map for their exhaust system, so if you go that route, be prepared to find a good tuner and spend an additional $300 for Dyno time.  Do NOT let V&H tell you that their Fuelpak "tuner" will do the job...it is a total waste of money.

100% spot on - you WILL need a tune when losing the Cat.  Getting rid of that Cat is the BIGGEST improvement you can make as well.  It affects both heat and sound.

Midnight Rider made a great suggestion concerning how to procede with your choice of pipes & cores, TTS, and maps from Steve.  You won't need a dyno with that - just hop on and ride after completing the install and tune.

My personal set-up is Fullsac pipe & baffles, TTS Master Tuner, and maps - all from Fullsac.  I've had no regrets since intalling this 2 years ago - that is regular riding year round (live in AZ) in temps all the way up to 120 (told you, I live in AZ).

Remember though - the choice is YOURS, all we can and should do is pass along our experience to try and help you out.  Its YOUR bike and money, not ours so YOU have to happy with it, not us.

[chiefs584ever]

I thank you all for the advice.  Do not want to do any damage to the bike and I musr admit that there is a multitude of varying opinions.  I do not want to loose the fuel milage with an agressive tune.  Dont really care about peak numbers, just a cool flowing exhausr wirhout the cat and want thw bike to keep respectable mpg.  My 04 CVO Pumkin has a power commander and to be honest, the mpg stinks.

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[chiefs584ever]

Can I get the results I am looking for with an ECM flash on the stock unit rather than a complete new ecm retrofit with a race tuner?

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[chiefs584ever]

@tinspinner.  I am looking at thw headpipes with the crossover.  Not true duals.  I have heard from multiple sources that the 110 likes the backpressure to run right.

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