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[Twolanerider]

I agree completely. My reason for not naming 'him', is I would not want to drag him into this discussion. Baisley and Alsteadt are referenced as a standard, but not related to the subject in this thread.

Please excuse my chitty spelling as I am a product of the North Carolina public education system.

I understand the motivation and appreciate that you understand the impression that can be made.  It's just that there is little but doubt and speculation to be gained in a conversation at least ostensibly about who might be a good tuner in saying, "oh, I know one, but it's a secret."

Of course this thread stopped being specifically about personnel recommendations a long time ago... 

[Steve Cole]

Everyone knows someone, just as there is an ass for every seat.

[turboprop]

@Twolanerider -My point is there are countless professional tuners out there tuning bikes every day. Most of which remain nameless and who's presence will never grace these forums.

Instead we get the usual 'tuning debaters' having the same 'taste great vs less filling' debate. Too much hyperbole, not enough experience and very little data, but yet they keep on running their suck, some more so than others (like the two bike, instant master phd tuning master jedi).


@Steve Cole - Aint that the truth!


Cheers

[hrdtail78]

Have any of you given any thought to maybe the best tuners are not on this or any other forums? Sort of like the best head porters and engine builders are not on these forums. For head porters I will use Mr. Dan Baisley as the gold standard, I know him personally, and can honestly say he has never looked at any harley forum. For engine builders, I will use Mr. Steve Alsteadt, he has posted a couple times in his life on on the now defunct AHDRA website. But you won't find him on something like this.

Back to the best tuner in the midwest, who could it be? Hmmm. Here is a crazy thought, maybe he is a social recluse, builds niche race stuff, and just chooses to stay out of the mudd (so to speak). There could be a guy,well there is a guy and I know him but will not name him, that amongst other things, tunes bikes, well mainly just engines. This guy exists. He has an engine dyno that can be adopted to work with a chassis, uses sensors for head and exhaust temp, the operator sits at a control panel outside of the dyno room. Everyone else being discussed here are simply mid-level amatures.

The truly comical part of all this is the usual 'tuning debaters' on these forums will probably get all worked up over this. While the truly good tuners are pretty humble and will be wondering who this guy is because they would like to meet him and learn some stuff. Dan Baisley and Steve Alsteadt are also very humble guys.

So.... thanks for coming on and sharing you opinion on the subject.   Your buddy you can't speak of because he is such a genius, isn't a pro tuner unless he is getting paid.  That's how the word works.  Thanks again for coming.

[110tHunDer]

...

Of course this thread stopped being specifically about personnel recommendations a long time ago... 

This is, by far, the most out of control thread I've ever seen on any board, let alone this one.  However, the mention of the word "moderation" within it, even in the context it was used, does at least bring some much-needed comedic relief, seeing as there hasn't been any, whatsoever.

[Twolanerider]

@Twolanerider -My point is there are countless professional tuners out there tuning bikes every day. Most of which remain nameless and who's presence will never grace these forums.

It cannot be said the thought "if (fill in hyperbolic vendor name) was so good to have that much work than how is he on here so much?" has never crossed my mind....

[turboprop]

So.... thanks for coming on and sharing you opinion on the subject.   Your buddy you can't speak of because he is such a genius, isn't a pro tuner unless he is getting paid.  That's how the word works.  Thanks again for coming.

Don't down play me. Even though we have met, you really do not know me. No need to be smart

As for the person I referenced, he is a pro, does allot of work (manufacturing, building and tuning) for top level race efforts and yes he gets paid. Over the last forty or so years, I think something like sixty records have been set by either his bikes or bikes with major engine components manufactured by him.

For what it's worth, I have been following your posts on several threads for a couple of years, I think your one of the better tuners that frequents these boards. Semper Fi. 

[hrdtail78]

Don't down play me. Even though we have met, you really do not know me. No need to be smart

As for the person I referenced, he is a pro, does allot of work (manufacturing, building and tuning) for top level race efforts and yes he gets paid. Over the last forty or so years, I think something like sixty records have been set by either his bikes or bikes with major engine components manufactured by him.

For what it's worth, I have been following your posts on several threads for a couple of years, I think your one of the better tuners that frequents these boards. Semper Fi. 

Then you understand I will charge and ambush, and calling me an amuture is uncalled for.  Semper Fi.

[Black Diamond]

I miss the bad old days when we (riders/members) brought up issues we had actually experience.  Heck, sometimes another rider/member had already been down this same path, would share their experience and sometimes the solution they found.  

As for vendors, we would recommended those that had done a good job for us, personally, not what is on the internet.

FWIW  (which ain't much)

JW  

[sadunbar]

I miss the bad old days when we (riders/members) brought up issues we had actually experience.  Heck, sometimes another rider/member had already been down this same path, would share their experience and sometimes the solution they found.  

As for vendors, we would recommended those that had done a good job for us, personally, not what is on the internet.

FWIW  (which ain't much)

JW  

Fortunately, Jeff, it doesn't take much in this thread....

[Twolanerider]

I miss the bad old days when we (riders/members) brought up issues we had actually experience.  Heck, sometimes another rider/member had already been down this same path, would share their experience and sometimes the solution they found.  

As for vendors, we would recommended those that had done a good job for us, personally, not what is on the internet.

FWIW  (which ain't much)

JW  

This thread is a sad example of vendors run amok Jeff.  Not sure if it's like watching a train wreck or a soap opera or both.  Pretty sure it's both.

Years ago, long enough ago I was a moderator; so before all the keys on the keyboard were invented, there was a discussion had "upstairs" on how vendors would be handled.  Questions like limitations to commercial "vendor sections" of their own without full participation, participation but on a leash, abide them barely or just let them be like any other member.  There were no doubt many shades of gray in the discussion; it's been a long time ago...

I wish they'd been handled on a leash.  There's so many now it's probably a fools errand to attempt to rein them in.  As this thread shows they just attract each other.  The "mine is bigger than yours" in support of commercial opportunism is sometimes humorous (because it's done with so little subtlety and often so poorly) but WillieG it gets old.  Not sure what the metaphor is.  Parasite is probably wrong as parasites don't always attract others and spread.  More like a cancer that has and continues to metastasize.

Some of the vendors are incredibly helpful.  They really are every bit as much if not more of a member than they are a salesman.  And even when they sell it's not ever the top.  Too many, however, take nearly every opportunity for commercial speech and opportunistic one-upsmanship against their perceived competition.  Junior high school girls arguing over boys is perhaps an ever better comparison for the tone and tenor.

Would still be bad, but not quite as bad, if they were only thin skinned with each other.  But we get lectured and condescended to in the process.  

At this point it is what it is.  The mods occasionally close a thread only so that the circus can pop up again elsewhere and with new clowns added to the old.  God knows what kind of fecal-cumulonimbus event would have happened in this thread if someone had mentioned EMS...

[Fattbaggernknox]

This thread is a sad example of vendors run amok Jeff.  Not sure if it's like watching a train wreck or a soap opera or both.  Pretty sure it's both.

Years ago, long enough ago I was a moderator; so before all the keys on the keyboard were invented, there was a discussion had "upstairs" on how vendors would be handled.  Questions like limitations to commercial "vendor sections" of their own without full participation, participation but on a leash, abide them barely or just let them be like any other member.  There were no doubt many shades of gray in the discussion; it's been a long time ago...

I wish they'd been handled on a leash.  There's so many now it's probably a fools errand to attempt to rein them in.  As this thread shows they just attract each other.  The "mine is bigger than yours" in support of commercial opportunism is sometimes humorous (because it's done with so little subtlety and often so poorly) but WillieG it gets old.  Not sure what the metaphor is.  Parasite is probably wrong as parasites don't always attract others and spread.  More like a cancer that has and continues to metastasize.

Some of the vendors are incredibly helpful.  They really are every bit as much if not more of a member than they are a salesman.  And even when they sell it's not ever the top.  Too many, however, take nearly every opportunity for commercial speech and opportunistic one-upsmanship against their perceived competition.  Junior high school girls arguing over boys is perhaps an ever better comparison for the tone and tenor.

Would still be bad, but not quite as bad, if they were only thin skinned with each other.  But we get lectured and condescended to in the process.  

At this point it is what it is.  The mods occasionally close a thread only so that the circus can pop up again elsewhere and with new clowns added to the old.  God knows what kind of fecal-cumulonimbus event would have happened in this thread if someone had mentioned EMS...

This is the best & most knowledgeable post in the  entire thread! 

[TorqueInc]

 This one got more than a little off track and the point has been lost

[turboprop]

Just how many vendors do you people think answered in this thread? Consider that if "vendors" did stop in just how much info and help wouldn't show up in these forums. They are generally people, riders,  just like you. Of course, you can always rely on screwdriver joe and hammer hank. After all, if they post it on the internet then it must be true. Just my opinion and you know what they say an opinion is worth.

Would be good if the vendors were more regulated and on the same playing field. For example, most shop owners on here have signed up (forced maybe?) to become site vendors but others have been allowed to openly promote and discuss their products without becoming a site vendor.

A good example of this would be Mr. Steve Cole, this forum has sort of become the new TTS support forum, but yet Mr. Cole does not have Vendor in his avatar. Why are so many of the smaller, one man shops so strongly encouraged to become vendors here, but a business as large as TTS is allowed to post openly on here for free?

[sadunbar]

Just how many vendors do you people think answered in this thread? Consider that if "vendors" did stop in just how much info and help wouldn't show up in these forums. They are generally people, riders,  just like you. Of course, you can always rely on screwdriver joe and hammer hank. After all, if they post it on the internet then it must be true. Just my opinion and you know what they say an opinion is worth.

Oh such wishful thinking!  

Vendors who are site members first and vendors a distant second are more than welcome in my estimation.  There are many fine examples - fullsac perf, hd-dude and several others come to mind for many reasons.  Unfortunately, many vendors are here for an agenda.  As I read stated elsewhere ""There is good info in those sections, but it can sometimes be hard to find behind all the arguing and belittling one another."  Our site is not a "tech site".  Typically, (other than vendor driven discussions) "tech issue" only arise when someone has a question or problem, and as Black Diamond stated " another rider/member had already been down this same path, would share their experience, and sometimes the solution they found".  

Screwdriver Joe and Hammer Hank have worked just fine for most of us.  And when they don't, the site membership can generally come to the rescue with sound advice - or at least a path to sound advice.