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[hrdtail78]

That doesn't answer what I asked.  Skirting the issue?

To collect data. The engine needs to be run.  The only thing out there that change on the fly is stock narrow bands. Every other tuner in the HD market is collect. Then change.

[FLTRI]

Try it with whatever tune you want.

Note that the formula is RPMxMAP/100  The 100 just makes it read nearly the same as RPM at WOT. 

Andy

Can you imagine the damage that could be done by running a poorly (lean) running bike to collect an hour of data to determine what's up using your method?

I'd rather check and correct AFR immediately by sampling live and be sure continuing tuning occurs with the bike running safely.

How do you assure safe running when collecting big data files from long term running?

Bob

[whittlebeast]

I thought this was all about the guy getting a good tune that does not own a $35,000 dyno.

[FLTRI]

I thought this was all about the guy getting a good tune that does not own a $35,000 dyno.

Close. This thread is all about verification of claims and statements about the viability of using a predetermined sensor voltage to tune to a safe AFR at WOT...not to be used for continuous running.
Based on your statements and opinions on this thread, I would think you would have hours of logged Harley O2 voltages and subsequent sampled AFR?
Can you post some of them in standard graphing format rather than scatter graphs?

Thanks,
Bob

[hrdtail78]

I thought this was all about the guy getting a good tune that does not own a $35,000 dyno.

Still avoiding my question?   What you are doing is resistance tactics 101.

[hrdtail78]

I thought this was all about the guy getting a good tune that does not own a $35,000 dyno.

So, now the only option is to buy your own?  Not pay somebody to tune your bike?  Where do you come up with?  Same place the formula came from?

[whittlebeast]

I find it interesting that so many people here are unwilling to look at the data coming off their bikes that were tuned on the only device that they trust, their own dyno.

Your bike is running on the same data that is on the CAN bus.

Andy

[mayor]

I find it interesting that so many people here are unwilling to look at the data coming off their bikes that were tuned on the only device that they trust, their own dyno.

I have been trying to follow your logic for some time, and I just can’t seem to get a read on exactly it is that you are doing that you feel is so superior to the conventional norm.  I don’t mean that in an antagonistic way, just I’m not following at all what you are trying to accomplish.  The only real thing that I have seen you offer is to review others data and you like to post scatter shots that doesn’t really over a clear insight to how to understand your logic.  I just haven’t seen any real info that we can hang our hat on and truly try to understand.  So, since I do what to try to understand, please answer a few basic questions for me.  When you are reviewing the data that has been collected from a long ride on the bike, please spell out specifically what it is you are doing based on the following (keep HD specific please):

1.   what exact data collection perimeters are you reviewing? 
2.   what in your mind determines whether a bike is in a good state of tune? 
3.   what in your mind means that the bike is in need of additional tuning?
4.   what perimeters do you find yourself adjusting most frequently to achieve your desired state of tune?

Please be specific so that we can understand more of how you are looking at tuning.

[whittlebeast]

1.    what exact data collection perimeters are you reviewing? 
2.    what in your mind determines whether a bike is in a good state of tune? 
3.    what in your mind means that the bike is in need of additional tuning?
4.   what perimeters do you find yourself adjusting most frequently to achieve your desired state of tune?

Please be specific so that we can understand more of how you are looking at tuning.

1.   what exact data collection perimeters are you reviewing?  Mostly the long term fuel trims are as consistently close to 100 when the o2s are chasing the only output voltage they are good at chasing 450 mv plus and offset the ECU uses

2.   what in your mind determines whether a bike is in a good state of tune?  See answer 1

3.   what in your mind means that the bike is in need of additional tuning?   By watching the patterns that develop in the area of the tune that we are brave enough to chase that 450 MV  I get a little nervous at 80 KPA but these motors appear to be fairly tough.  This assumes you don't have widebands on the motor.  Every motor has patterns that develop. 

4.   what perimeters do you find yourself adjusting most frequently to achieve your desired state of tune?  The VE

Andy

[FLTRI]

Good discussion going here.
Andy please explain why using an hour long data logs and scatter plots are more accurate and provides a better tune than a Dyno tuning system.
When you refer to the scatter plot data as "jumps out at you", what we see on a Dyno is instantaneous and we can make adjustments within minutes to correct VEs.

Bob

[hrdtail78]

I find it interesting that so many people here are unwilling to look at the data coming off their bikes that were tuned on the only device that they trust, their own dyno.

Your bike is running on the same data that is on the CAN bus.

Andy

I got more tools than that. Dyno is a great tool. It allows me to hold any throttle position or MAP and any RPM.  It allows me to see with a graph if I have made changes for the better or worse. That is all. I don't use the O2 stack. I have others ways of reading O2. Several, and can compare them.  Using 2-3 different ways to verify what the engine is actually doing is better than math. If we can get NB on board. That's just another cross check.

I don't have a CAN bike.

[whittlebeast]

EFI tuning is all about averages and patterns.  90% of the time we get to x condition we are getting y for an answer and the other 10% we have to live with.  I try to never swing into the 450 mv range at WOT.  That is way too lean.  It takes plenty of pulls to get enough data.

I realize this is info of a different application but when tuning the turbo ski stuff, I may do 60 WOT sweeps from lots of different conditions looking for holes in the patterns.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

I got more tools than that. Dyno is a great tool. It allows me to hold any throttle position or MAP and any RPM.  It allows me to see with a graph if I have made changes for the better or worse. That is all. I don't use the O2 stack. I have others ways of reading O2. Several, and can compare them.  Using 2-3 different ways to verify what the engine is actually doing is better than math. If we can get NB on board. That's just another cross check.

I don't have a CAN bike.

Street riding is almost never a constant RPM/Load. Different gears, different loads, different hills, different RPM sweep speeds.......

[hrdtail78]

Dyno's can do sweeps also.

Mapping VE's is to get how much air is flowing through the engine.  This is done at steady state.  Other tables come into play for sweeps.  As for as patterns?  Different cam timing comes into play, different exhaust comes into play, different baffles comes into play, different port jobs, vavle size, intake runners,.........  That is why sampling can't be beat.

[whittlebeast]

Dynos have no easy way to duplicate cooling and air filter air flow as happens on the street.