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[FLTRI]

North Georgia Hawg,
I don't know who you are but you are right on with your replies to the BS from a few who have felt it necessary to come here from the "other" forum just to slam SC.
Bob

[mayor]

What I will say is you will thank yourself in the future if you forget about that V&H piggyback box (Fuel Pak) or similar devices.  Get a real tuning solution (TTS, SEPST, Power Vision, etc.).

this advice is spot on.  The only other thing to add is you need to decide if you are attempting to tune the bike yourself, or if you will be hiring a professional.  If you will be hiring a professional to tune your bike, then I would suggest waiting to see what tuning system your tuner is the most comfortable in using (and if it is a piggy back system, choose a different tuner  ).  If you decide to attempt tuning the bike yourself, then Power Vision or Mastertune (TTS) are the better options.  Both are very good systems, and each takes a little bit of a learning curve to understand how to use them but both will get the job done if you put the effort into understanding what your job as data collector is and how to be good at collecting data.  The one easy area to distinguish which system may be better for you is whether you want to carry a laptop around with you while you are collecting data.  The TTS system currently requires a laptop, and the PV does not. 

[North Georgia Hawg]

this advice is spot on.  The only other thing to add is you need to decide if you are attempting to tune the bike yourself, or if you will be hiring a professional.  If you will be hiring a professional to tune your bike, then I would suggest waiting to see what tuning system your tuner is the most comfortable in using (and if it is a piggy back system, choose a different tuner  ).  If you decide to attempt tuning the bike yourself, then Power Vision or Mastertune (TTS) are the better options.  Both are very good systems, and each takes a little bit of a learning curve to understand how to use them but both will get the job done if you put the effort into understanding what your job as data collector is and how to be good at collecting data.  The one easy area to distinguish which system may be better for you is whether you want to carry a laptop around with you while you are collecting data.  The TTS system currently requires a laptop, and the PV does not. 

As you said Mayor, the TTS currently requires a laptop to collect data... but my understanding is that it won't require a laptop anymore in the near future. The current blue dongle will be able to record hours of data on both J1850 and CAN bikes, across multiple ignition on/off cycles, all by itself.

And, the new TTS Timing Assist function is coming soon, too.

The TTS MasterTune just keeps getting better and better, for the same $445 price. Gotta love that!

Ken

[eleft36]

North Georgia Hawg,
I don't know who you are but you are right on with your pep lies to the BS from a few who have felt it necessary to come here from the "other" forum just to slam SC.
Bob

Was this("just to slam SC") post deleted?
Al

[mayor]

As you said Mayor, the TTS currently requires a laptop to collect data... but my understanding is that it won't require a laptop anymore in the near future. The current blue dongle will be able to record hours of data on both J1850 and CAN bikes, across multiple ignition on/off cycles, all by itself. 

which is why I added currently to my original statement.    

Was this("just to slam SC") post deleted?

my guess is there are some who wrongly view recommending something other than TTS for tuning to be a slame on SC.  In truth, as you know there are a few very good products on the market and some have more desirable features to some people than others so that's why some may recommend one product over another.

[FLTRI]

Just need to read post #14 to get my point.
Bob

[Buckeye_Tuning]

Flight Recorder will be coming this year.  With that?  A DIYer will no longer have to carry a laptop on data runs.  This feature will be able to record up to ten(10) hours of data.

VTune 3, also coming soon, will do both timing tables and VE tables at the same time.

Mayor should get his facts correct when posting, instead of parroting the haters!   HAHA!

The latest rounds of TTS updates was to speed up and simplify the code, to get it ready for Flight Recorder.

[roger28310]

The new TTS sounds great, but what about those of us that live in states that are very flat, absent of long hills, how do we hit all the tables without a dyno and load break? Is it true that it locks the ECM to where most dealerships won't touch it?

[North Georgia Hawg]

Mayor should get his facts correct when posting, instead of parroting the haters!   HAHA!

I really didn't get the impression from mayor's reply that he was parroting anyone, and I agree with what he said. My reply #14 was intended to clarify some misleading things written by turboprop, and to set the record straight.

The new TTS sounds great, but what about those of us that live in states that are very flat, absent of long hills, how do we hit all the tables without a dyno and load break? Is it true that it locks the ECM to where most dealerships won't touch it?

Well, basically the weight of you and your bike, plus wind resistance, will provide the appropriate load to get the VE data recorded properly. After all, that's about as real world as it gets... because that's exactly the load the engine is under when you ride. Better dynos have brakes to counteract the momentum of the spinning dyno wheel, and to simulate "real world" conditions such as load from friction and wind resistance. But in the REAL "real world", you don't need to simulate anything... all of those factors are already present!

The answer to the ECM "locking" question is in my reply #14. No dealer should ever touch the calibration anyway - unless they have a TTS tuner in house AND he's doing a tuning job on the bike. There is simply NO reason for a service department to EVER flash a different calibration into the bike unless tuning is being performed.

The TTS simply changes the ECM key in order to prevent the calibration from being inadvertently overwritten by a device other than the TTS device that was used to load the current calibration. It's a very good safety feature, I think. Having a different key does NOT prevent the dealer from pulling codes nor from performing any other normal service functions involving the ECM. Again, no one should ever flash a different calibration into the ECM except during the tuning process anyway. You SURE don't want some goon in a service department re-flashing a calibration into your ECM, and thereby wiping out your tune!

If you restore the OEM calibration, the TTS restores the original OEM key along with it - thereby "unlocking" the ECM, and also erasing all traces of there ever having been a TTS calibration in the bike at all. This is the way it SHOULD work, in my opinion because it protects US, the users, from incompetent service personnel doing things they shouldn't be doing in the first place...

Ken

[mayor]

Mayor should get his facts correct when posting, instead of parroting the haters!   HAHA!  

   
perhaps you can help me identify the facts that I had wrong?    If you can pinpoint any facts that I have incorrect, I will issue a formal apology to anyone I wronged by my statements.     

If you are referring to my statement regarding Bob's post, I see logical explanations of why someone may choose one system over another and good counter arguments....but no where did I see trumped up BS stuff as Bob suggests.    The concerns have validity to some folks, maybe not all folks, but there are some that feel the concerns that turboprop outlined.  I think NGH did a good job of making counter arguments, and adding some additional clarity to potential areas of concerns.   There are still going to be some that can't get past a road block or so, so they will choose another system.  There's a few good options out there, so no big deal and to each their own.  I personally like the TTS system, but I almost went to Power Vision on my own bike over the locked ecm concern.  I don't think it's a BS concern at all.  It’s one I eventually got past, but I can see why others wouldn’t be able to.  I personally like the Tmax system, but I wouldn't consider it on a DBW bike for personal tuning reasons (no easy way to pin point TPS).  I think I can verbalize that without that being a shot at Thunderheart, so why would someone not wanting to carry a laptop be a shot at TTS when currently you need one?  As I said, these are legitimate concerns.  I would guess that TTS understands that there are concerns that some in the market may have for their product, which is why they are working to improve their product and trim these potential negative issues. 

[mayor]

1. The new TTS sounds great, but what about those of us that live in states that are very flat, absent of long hills, how do we hit all the tables without a dyno and load break?

2. Is it true that it locks the ECM to where most dealerships won't touch it?

1. you use the gearing you have available to control the load that the engine is seeing.  The higher the gear at a given rpm the greater the load, and vice a versa.  There are limits available on the street, but the key is reaching to just the outside edges of your typical operating ranges.  The secret to DIY tuning is not tuning your bike using the same driving style of how you would normally ride.  You want to tune using the right gear, and any combinations of wrong gears that you can for given rpm range.  Heck, when I'm closed course over the road tuning...I'm usually in anything but the right gear.  The more in tune a bike is, the more agree able it is to using the wrong gear  (example: 1,500 rpm in 6th gear, which is often touted as no man's land). 

2. not necessarily.  The Digital Technician can still read codes, but it is locked out of reprogramming. This is a deal breaker for some shops, but not all.   It usually depends on whether your dealer of choice uses TTS to tune.  Most that tune with it, do not see this locking function as a big deal based on feedback I have received. 

[98fxstc]

The new TTS does not have any wi-fi capability , so if you want a remote monitor to verify cells being filled in , you still have to carry a laptop.
I can live with that if the new stuff is as good as it's supposed to be because tuning time will be substantially reduced .
(and tuning quality increased ?)

[North Georgia Hawg]

The new TTS does not have any wi-fi capability , so if you want a remote monitor to verify cells being filled in , you still have to carry a laptop.
I can live with that if the new stuff is as good as it's supposed to be because tuning time will be substantially reduced .
(and tuning quality increased ?)

I currently use a USB monitor mounted on the handlebars to be able to view the DataMaster histogram as it gets filled in during tuning runs.

However, my hope is that with the Flight Recorder and no laptop - thus no USB monitor - the data collection will end up being very complete due to the sheer amount of data the TTS device can hold all by itself, and across ignition on/off cycles. So, theoretically you could leave it on the bike for an entire day of riding on a J1850 bike, and collect tons of data across the RPM and kPa ranges. We will no longer be limited to just 45-60 minutes of data collection at a time and have to try to fill up all of the cells during a single tuning run anymore. We can just ride a lot and hit the different ranges over the course of whole day's riding.

Hopefully this will make VTune data collection much easier, and safer, than having to watch a monitor while riding. Of course, you will still need to exercise the throttle across a lot of range, in different gears, to capture the edge cases of high kPa/ low RPM, low kPa/high RPM, etc... but almost all street riding isn't done in those areas anyway.

Just my thoughts...

Ken

[05Train]

I just find it amusing how defensive the TTS crowd is.  It's a fine tuner, and I won't say a bad word about it (as I've done a ton of tuning with it).  But the PV has a far simpler UI, the display makes street tuning simpler and safer, and I don't have to lug a laptop around with me.

There's plenty of market out there for multiple tuners (hell, Nightrider's making a decent living).  You're happy with a TTS?  I'm happy for you.  For my money, I'll spend the same amount on a PV which comes with cables (and not that antiquated serial crap) and a display.  You won't convince me that a TTS will tune a Stage 1 any better than a PV, and that's what 90% of them are used for.

[roger28310]

Thats the boat that I am in. Several indi's in town with dynos and eventhe dealership has a dyno but none of them prefer TTS. The dealership here won't have anything to do with TTS. Like the Op, I too am faced with a decision about which system to go with. The Powervision and Thundermax seem like they are so much easier to use.

Does Powervision also lock the dealers out of the ECM the same way that TTS does?