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[Sandman69]

Any opinions on the tuner to go with, Vance and Hines 2 into 2 pipes ,V&H tuner,screaming eagle tuner ??

[JakeB]

i am running the power vision tuner by dynojet and love it.  it has an auto tune basic function that works amazing.  and if you shell out some more money you can get an auto tune pro package that is supposed to work even better.  you do not need to leave the unit on the bike after you flash it, so you don't need to worry about mounting it.  you can reflash your bike with it as many times as you want.  i have used the vance and hines fuel pack, and the dynojet power commander in the past.  hands down, the power vision is at the top of the class.

[Coyote.]

+1 on the Power Vision. 

[tweeter13]

Several different brands out there that will work.  TTS mastertune is what I like.   Plenty of threads on here to do a search and read up about.   You can also do a search on others as well.  That way you make a informed choice based on your preference not by what we tell you.   Steve Cole is a member on here and he is the one that designed it as well.   Lots of cool things you can do with it. 

Todd.

[Durwood]

+2 Power Vision, I bought mine from Fuel Moto, they provide awesome tech support

[grc]

I won't bother chiming in on which of the real tuning devices is best; as noted by Tweeter13 there are many threads on the site already that have beaten that horse to death.  What I will say is you will thank yourself in the future if you forget about that V&H piggyback box (Fuel Pak) or similar devices.  Get a real tuning solution (TTS, SEPST, Power Vision, etc.).

Jerry

[eleft36]

""" Get a real tuning solution (TTS, SEPST, Power Vision, etc.).''''

TTS has hundreds of "how do I" posts all over the web, which probably makes it the most unfriendly to the novice "tuner"

Just my observation as I have no experience with it.

Al

[Steve Cole]

""" Get a real tuning solution (TTS, SEPST, Power Vision, etc.).''''

TTS has hundreds of "how do I" posts all over the web, which probably makes it the most unfriendly to the novice "tuner"

Just my observation as I have no experience with it.

Al

It's also the number 1 selling HD EFI tuner for years too

[98fxstc]

TTS has hundreds of "how do I" posts all over the web, which probably makes it the most unfriendly to the novice "tuner"

X2

I don't know if its the most unfriendly , but it is unfriendly.

It's also the number 1 selling HD EFI tuner for years too

I got one because it did appear to be the best but it takes a while to come to grips with it.
If you don't have any mates with previous experience with one , you will find it hard at first.
The number 1 selling HD EFI tuner should have a more user friendly Tuning Guide !

[05Train]

i am running the power vision tuner by dynojet and love it.  it has an auto tune basic function that works amazing.  and if you shell out some more money you can get an auto tune pro package that is supposed to work even better.  you do not need to leave the unit on the bike after you flash it, so you don't need to worry about mounting it.  you can reflash your bike with it as many times as you want.  i have used the vance and hines fuel pack, and the dynojet power commander in the past.  hands down, the power vision is at the top of the class.

Gotta agree.

I tuned my FLHTK extensively with a TTS, and it's a damn fine tuner.  But the UI is awful.  Aside from the fact that you have to cart a laptop with you when you're tuning, the whole way you interact with the various programs (Mastertune, Datamaster, Vtune) is/are clunky.  You want to do a tuning run?  Go into Mastertune, change the Lambda table, change the PE mode, make whatever other adjustments you may or may not see fit, then cart your laptop to the bike and load the tune.  Load Datamaster and do a tuning run.  Then when you're done with your tuning run, pull your laptop back out, save everything, shut the bike off, load Vtune, accept the changes, save that, load it into Mastertune, then load it into the bike.

On a Powervision, you push a button, load the tune into the bike, shut the bike off, turn it back on, set the data logging, then ride.  When you're done, you push another button, accept the tune, load it into the bike, and ride away.  Oh, and you can see which cells you've hit on the handlebar-mounted display.

[redmtrckl]

Anytime a person has to use a handle bar mounted visual device and tune on the open road and not on a closed course then to me you are doing something that is just as bad as texting in a school zone driving a cage. One cannot watch a small monitor no bigger than a cheap cell phone and still operate a motorcycle safely.
So, now when something eventually bad does happen and it will sooner or later, who gets sued? the user or the manufacturer?
I see it as irresponsible and I hope I never see anybody actually doing it

[turboprop]

It's also the number 1 selling HD EFI tuner for years too

But yet Harley MoCo, who paid for it's development, chose to drop TTS (or whatever it was called) and go with another company.

I have an older TTS, a newer TTS, a PowerVision and a Thundermax. I have no issues using any of the devices or in the case of T-Max their ECM and software.

As has already been said, the TTS can be difficult for many, and without a dyno the upper regions are simply guesses. And it requires a DIYer to ride around with a laptop rigged up to their bike.

Powervision is really easy to use, somewhat expensive, but has terrific support for the few that need it. As has been said, riding around with a small graphic interface (or laptop with TTS) and trying to pay attention to cell data while riding on a public street is dangerous and should be/probably is illegal.

Thundermax is super easy to use, tunes the entire range, uses wide band 02 sensors, is super easy to use. Another added benefit of Thundermax vice TTS is T-Max will not lock the factory ECM. In fact, Tmax doen not even use the factory ECM.

As for cost, add the price of TTS to the cost of a full dyno tune, and the price comes to around a $1,000, Powervision will not require a dyno operator so it's final price comes in slightly lower than the total cost of TTs. Thundermax with Autotune also does not require a dyno operator and can be had for mid $700s.

Unless a DIYer just likes to tinker, or has to have every last little bit of whatever out of their bike and likes to pay dyno operators large sums of money, Thundermax is the way to go. Costs much less, easier to use and for 99% of the owners and their bikes it will produce the best and easiest results in the least amount of time.

Final thoughts. The OP would be best served to shy away from TTS and look at either PowerVision or Thundermax.

About me: Just a DIYer with way too much time on my hands and a love of motorcycles.  Unlike several that have posted in this thread, I have no commercial interests in any of these three products and am not here to sell anything or advocate for anyone or anything. Please keep this in mind as you read the various comments in this thread.

[05Train]

Anytime a person has to use a handle bar mounted visual device and tune on the open road and not on a closed course then to me you are doing something that is just as bad as texting in a school zone driving a cage. One cannot watch a small monitor no bigger than a cheap cell phone and still operate a motorcycle safely.

Respectfully, that's not how the PV works.  You "use" the PV with the ignition on and the bike the bike off.  The only interface with the display is to glance at it and see which areas still need to be logged.  You can't see (at least I can't see) the individual cells, only the areas that are complete or need work.  Glancing at the PV is no more dangerous than glancing at the tach.

[98fxstc]

Glancing at the PV is no more dangerous than glancing at the tach.

 

I use an ipad with 5 3/4" x  7 3/4" screen mounted on the bars.

[North Georgia Hawg]

But yet Harley MoCo, who paid for it's development, chose to drop TTS (or whatever it was called) and go with another company.

Long story there, not much of it pretty. Your statement is true - but it is highly misleading as to why the MoCo switched vendors. I suggest you get the facts...
...
As has already been said, the TTS can be difficult for many, and without a dyno the upper regions are simply guesses. And it requires a DIYer to ride around with a laptop rigged up to their bike.

It soon will not require a laptop anymore, and will be able to record hours of data just by itself. It does record data across the entire MAP range, and the new software updates enable the user to see all of this data.

Powervision is really easy to use, somewhat expensive, but has terrific support for the few that need it. ...

The TTS really pretty easy to use. Frankly, anyone who cannot cope with using it should really have their bike professionally tuned. If you can't learn to use a TTS, you have absolutely no business trying to tune your bike.

Thundermax is super easy to use, tunes the entire range, uses wide band 02 sensors, is super easy to use.

There is NO WAY that I would ever replace the factory Delphi ECM with an Alpha-N based product like the T-Max. Delphi went to MAP-based Lambda calibration for Harleys for the same reason virtually all automotive companies have... because it's a far better method than is throttle position-based operation for engine operating efficiency. MAP-based calibration is far more accurate, because MAP sensing enables the ECM to know precisely what has just happened, and the ECM can thus adjust the AFR far more accurately for future events than TP-based Alpha-N systems are capable of doing. Alpha-N is old technology.

Another added benefit of Thundermax vice TTS is T-Max will not lock the factory ECM. In fact, Tmax doen not even use the factory ECM.

Again, your statement is true but misleading. I would never replace the factory Delphi ECM with a non-Harley Alpha-N based ECM, as I stated above.

The TTS "locks" the ECM ONLY to prevent the TTS calibration from being inadvertently overwritten by some clueless goon in a dealer service department. The TTS calibrations have many internal settings to improve engine performance that are not visible to the user, for good reason. The factory calibration can be saved, and can be restored to the ECM at any time - erasing all traces of a TTS calibration ever having been in the ECM. In fact, the new blue TTS 2 dongle saves the factory calibration in the dongle automatically, so it is not lost if the user does not remember to save it first.

The H-D SEPST will set a bit in the ECM that will remain set even after the OEM calibration is restored, and the H-D Digital Technician in the dealer service department will indicate that a modified calibration was once in the ECM. I don't know if the PV does this or not - but those who have warranty concerns should consider this.

As for cost, add the price of TTS to the cost of a full dyno tune, and the price comes to around a $1,000, Powervision will not require a dyno operator so it's final price comes in slightly lower than the total cost of TTs. Thundermax with Autotune also does not require a dyno operator and can be had for mid $700s.

The TTS costs about $445. It can be used to produce a very good tune without a dyno using the DataMaster and VTune software. It's done all the time. However, there is much more to tuning than simply getting the VE tables dialed in. The TTS allows for manipulation of many other tables and control values in the calibration. Does the PV or T-Max provide the capability to do this? I ask because I don't know.

I do know that Steve Cole has decades of experience in the automotive sector, and he designed the original SERT for H-D. He has spent years developing and improving the base TTS maps, and they have lots of functionality in them that improve the ECM operation that are not even exposed to the user. Steve is a LOT smarter than most of us users are.

Unless a DIYer just likes to tinker, or has to have every last little bit of whatever out of their bike and likes to pay dyno operators large sums of money, Thundermax is the way to go. Costs much less, easier to use and for 99% of the owners and their bikes it will produce the best and easiest results in the least amount of time.

Final thoughts. The OP would be best served to shy away from TTS and look at either PowerVision or Thundermax.

I disagree, but we all have our biases...

As I said above... there is a LOT more to tuning than just getting the VEs dialed in. The TTS MasterTune gives you visibility to many other tables and values, and enables you to makes all of those other adjustments.

From what I understand from reading around, the upcoming TTS Timing Assist is planned to also adjust the spark tables automatically during the V-Tune process as well, using timing data collected during the data collection process. But I don't speak for Steve Cole, and only he can properly address this new functionality.

I too am just a DIYer with a love of motorcycles. I have no commercial interests in any of these products, and I too am not here to sell anything. I will advocate for products I like, though... And I really like the TTS MasterTune.

My bike has never been on a dyno, and my TTS tune is excellent. Could it be better if I had it dyno tuned by a competent dyno operator? Probably it could be made a bit better, but I honestly don't think by very much... and it certainly isn't worth the trouble nor the expense. My TTS tune is pretty darn good, and my bike runs great.

Ken