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[mrauenzahn]

OK...havent had a new bike in 10 years. Just bought a 2013 CVO RG. I love V&H and Rinehart. Fullsac seems to get alot of attention too. Here's where I'm confused..when I upgraded my 2003 RG I bought a V&H tuner and their pipe. Plugged it all in and riding by lunch. Can I not buy a header pipe, put some Rinehart muflers or V&H and plug in a new ECM module? Must I dyno ?? I want to do this, but everywhere I look nothing is the same....

[TinSpinner]

Fullsac gets attention here because it works better than most set-ups. You can buy the stage 1 kit from Fullsac, including the head pipes, cores for your stock exhaust cans, and a Mastertune TTS with a map from Fullsac, install it all yourself and be riding by lunch if you start early enough.

[timo482]

of course you can do that, put whatever you want on there, its your bike and your money.

but you may or may not be happy with the results, new systems are incredibly more complicated. o2 sensor location and installation matters. if you disable the 02 sensors you may or may not have issues with other aspects of the bike.

if you dont ride a lot you can probably use a canned tuner - but even the canned tuner mfgs are much more careful now since all of them have paid heavy fines for selling stuff thats not legal - they intentionally muddy up there web site to mostly show the legal stuff they have for sale. new bikes have catalytic converters - removing the converter will make it run terrible unless its completely retuned. some aftermarket pipe mfg do make headers with converters so it will still run right. its also worth noting that its a lot of bux to change things and a lot of bux to make it run right. and if it goes bad and bakes the engine [ususally mods will fail by making the engine run so lean it gets way way too hot] you are on your own, hd wont give you a new engine if your mods cooked it, of course if it cooks on its own they will still try and not fix it.... *sigh*

also know that the factory engine warranty is technically void as soon as you mess with pipes.... sad but true

you may get a local dealer to supply a dealer warranty if they do the work. however that wont do any good at any other dealer. ten years ago was a long time in the engine management world.

its the same with cars - 100 percent computer controlled, you simply must deal with talking to the computer to make it run right after you change stuff.

most folks are changing tunes to get it to run cooler and to get more power, if all you want to do is make it not destroy itself a canned tune is probably just fine. but make sure your canned tuner and the pipes you use are a EXACT match.

to

[TinSpinner]

of course you can do that, put whatever you want on there, its your bike and your money.

but you may or may not be happy with the results, new systems are incredibly more complicated. o2 sensor location and installation matters. if you disable the 02 sensors you may or may not have issues with other aspects of the bike.

if you dont ride a lot you can probably use a canned tuner - but even the canned tuner mfgs are much more careful now since all of them have paid heavy fines for selling stuff thats not legal - they intentionally muddy up there web site to mostly show the legal stuff they have for sale. new bikes have catalytic converters - removing the converter will make it run terrible unless its completely retuned. some aftermarket pipe mfg do make headers with converters so it will still run right. its also worth noting that its a lot of bux to change things and a lot of bux to make it run right. and if it goes bad and bakes the engine [ususally mods will fail by making the engine run so lean it gets way way too hot] you are on your own, hd wont give you a new engine if your mods cooked it, of course if it cooks on its own they will still try and not fix it.... *sigh*

also know that the factory engine warranty is technically void as soon as you mess with pipes.... sad but true

you may get a local dealer to supply a dealer warranty if they do the work. however that wont do any good at any other dealer. ten years ago was a long time in the engine management world.

its the same with cars - 100 percent computer controlled, you simply must deal with talking to the computer to make it run right after you change stuff.

most folks are changing tunes to get it to run cooler and to get more power, if all you want to do is make it not destroy itself a canned tune is probably just fine. but make sure your canned tuner and the pipes you use are a EXACT match.

to

Terribly confusing post to a simple question. OP will be scared to do anything after reading that. Any significant change to the exhaust, such as changing head pipes, will require re-tuning, not a complicated procedure. Optimal results will be achieved with a competent dyno tuner but very satisfactory results can be had with a proven map like those provides by Fullsac.

[FLTRI]

Terribly confusing post to a simple question. OP will be scared to do anything after reading that. Any significant change to the exhaust, such as changing head pipes, will require re-tuning, not a complicated procedure. Optimal results will be achieved with a competent dyno tuner but very satisfactory results can be had with a proven map like those provides by Fullsac.

Bob

[timo482]

probably is confusing - the subject the OP put up IS confusing

the world changed

most folks coming back after 10 years expect there warranty to be good no matter what they do - and it isn't

the op does not want to dyno tune - so a canned tuner and pipe combination is the the solution. all the parts from one vendor in one purchase and its going to run just fine. and its going to take a day to do it. the most likely good result would be fulsac.

NOBODY should go into to doing mods if they are not confident that they either have the pockets to deal with it [potential warranty implications] or understand what they are doing.

the moco has spent the last 10 years making it really difficult to change exh without paying something somewhere to somebody.

in my old drag book, complete pipes and mufflers - 200$ cant touch proper pipe and proper tuner for less 1000$ and dyno time costs more yet if you want it perfect.

[North Georgia Hawg]

As was said... I would call Fullsac and get their Stage 1 "Sleeper" kit. It has their catless X-Pipe, their baffles and screens that replace the baffles in your CVO cans, and a TTS Mastertune unit for which Fullsac supplies a calibration file that you can simply flash into your ECM using a laptop and the TTS cables. You have to buy the TTS cables separately in order to flash the ECM yourself. All of this will cost you around $1300 shipped... plus another $80 for the cables.

The calibration file supplied by Fullsac was developed by Steve George on Fullsac's dyno for a stock 110 running his pipes and baffles. It will be close enough for your bike to just flash in and run. Your ECM will adjust the calibration enough over time as you ride, through its learned values function.

If you have made any other mods such as cams, then you would need further tuning that can be done on a dyno, or on the street yourself using the TTS Mastertune and tuning software. To do it yourself, you would need to become familiar with the TTS Mastertune and the tuning software - which is a bit of a learning curve if you've never done this sort of thing before.

You can get slightly better performance by installing the Cometic .030" head gaskets that Fullsac sells, but that's a rather big job, and it must be done correctly to avoid destroying your engine.

Fullsac also sells a Stage 2 upgrade with Andrews 54H cams (or maybe 57H cams now). Replacing the POS stock SE 255 cams with the Andrews 54H cams will really wake it up. They allow the engine to breathe much better than the crappy SE 255 stock cams.

Ken

[hrdtail78]

Just bought a 2013 CVO RG.

That's a $32,000 plus bike.  Why skimp on the stage 1?  I'd suggest a decent full exhaust, tuner and a good dyno tune.  For around $1,800.  You will have the piece of mind your bike is correct and it will run great.  Money well spent.

[naitram]

That's a $32,000 plus bike.  Why skimp on the stage 1?  I'd suggest a decent full exhaust, tuner and a good dyno tune.  For around $1,800.  You will have the piece of mind your bike is correct and it will run great.  Money well spent.

not everyone has convenient access to a good dyno tuner

i used fullsac with a canned map and put 8000 miles on in the first 10 weeks bike runs great.

i few of you dyno guys may find this hard to believe but some of us buy touring bike to tour with not to brag about 2 extra HP on a dyno run

[North Georgia Hawg]

not everyone has convenient access to a good dyno tuner

i used fullsac with a canned map and put 8000 miles on in the first 10 weeks bike runs great.

i few of you dyno guys may find this hard to believe but some of us buy touring bike to tour with not to brag about 2 extra HP on a dyno run

 

I can't brag... I've never even had the Honey Badger ON a dyno, and I don't really feel that I will ever need to. Damn thing SCOOTS tho... especially now that Mr. Wizard changed the timing tables last Thursday to ones for SE 260 cams to better match my SE 259Es, and we retuned with the TTS Flight Recorder to get a lot more data.

Ken

[hrdtail78]

not everyone has convenient access to a good dyno tuner

i used fullsac with a canned map and put 8000 miles on in the first 10 weeks bike runs great.

i few of you dyno guys may find this hard to believe but some of us buy touring bike to tour with not to brag about 2 extra HP on a dyno run

My FL is for touring.  I worried about 2000-4500 rpm.  So much more to a dyno tune than WOT.  I didn't see where he lived or what he has around him.  If he wanted to go to a dyno or not.  I saw the OP asked if he needed a dyno tune.  I answered him with my opinion.  That was all.

[hrdtail78]

I don't really feel that I will ever need to. Damn thing SCOOTS tho... especially now that Mr. Wizard changed the timing tables last Thursday to ones for SE 260 cams to better match my SE 259Es, and we retuned with the TTS Flight Recorder to get a lot more data.

Ken

Uh...?  That helps my point.  I'll leave out the word dyno and just talk tune from now on.  Not every body is going to have the knowledge or equipment to do this., but having the equipment sure helps with knowledge and testing new programs.

[North Georgia Hawg]

Uh...?  That helps my point.  I'll leave out the word dyno and just talk tune from now on.  Not every body is going to have the knowledge or equipment to do this., but having the equipment sure helps with knowledge and testing new programs.

Yep. All bikes should be properly tuned, but I think a full dyno tune is really only needed in order to squeeze out every last drop of performance at or near WOT... which most Touring riders don't REALLY need anyway. 

The blue TTS VCI does a fine job of collecting a lot more data now with the Flight Recorder... and all TTS users with the blue VCI will soon be able to collect HOURS of data in real world riding conditions, across on/off ignition cycles, very easily, without a laptop... and then apply that data to their tune easily using VTune

The upcoming new TTS Timing Assist function in VTune will also help spot where timing needs to be adjusted... or at least retarded to avoid pinging. The blue VCI already collects the data for this.

If I were going to drag race my bike, then I'd have it dyno tuned... but I'm not planning to ever do either of those things. Maybe if I'm ever at a rally where someone is doing cheap dyno pulls just so I can get a chart, then maybe I'd do that...  but only for the chart. 

Ken

[jcd520]

My thoughts---------------------
I have two CVO's, I put the fullsac treatment on both  complete with andrews 54's and would not consider anything else.
I have  two friends who used the VH plug and play tuner , both have heat and pinging at around the 2500 to 3000 rpm mark and are not happy with performance. They both called me before installing and I strongly recommended the fullsac (tts) tuner , mufflers, headpipe , and cams. They both went with VH fuelpak and various mufflers and tuned according to VH recommendations, (west texas if that matters) One ended up so frustrated he sold his bike (2010cvo ultra) and bought a 13 cvo rg--------------believe it or not he is about to go the same direction with it.
Most of the tuner offerings replace the delphi fuel management system which in my opinion is the best out there . TTS on the other hand utilizes the delphi system and just remaps it . They work perfectly I think.

Just another opinion , probably not worth anything but thats what I think.

[Para Bellum]

 

The blue TTS VCI does a fine job of collecting a lot more data now with the Flight Recorder... and all TTS users with the blue VCI will soon be able to collect HOURS of data in real world riding conditions, across on/off ignition cycles, very easily, without a laptop... and then apply that data to their tune easily using VTune

The upcoming new TTS Timing Assist function in VTune will also help spot where timing needs to be adjusted... or at least retarded to avoid pinging. The blue VCI already collects the data for this.



Ken

Any idea when this will be available, and what we'll have to do to get this? Run TTS updater?