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[Steve Cole]

Andy

Here is a thread for you to post up all your HD scatter graph information.

[SBB]

Now that's funny Steve.
A thread for all those that can't get along on that other site that want to come over here and bash you.
Cool!
Are there really people that petty?

 

SBB

[whittlebeast]

<<<<<<<< Warning >>>>>>>>>

This thread may get a little geeky in time with lots of graphs and math stuff.  I find this stuff amazing and now verify all tunes this way.  I use all sorts of auto tune programs all of the time but I always verify them with these concepts.  Yes they do break and get the wrong answer in some situations.  The trick is to be able find the exceptions..........

<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I am waiting to get some good data off one of the CAN bikes to do this for a Harley motor.

In the mean time, here is a sheet put together for the Sporty world a few years ago showing lots of the concepts.  Some of this is unique to the 2007-2013 Sportys that has apparently finally been fixed on the 2014 Sportys.

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1ZpG7F_7q3g5MQW3BkgfZtQuHZ6W7nWUTeJ9Gw49FuZ%208

I also threw together a page demonstrating some of this.  This sheet assumes that you have a fairly good handle on basic tuning so.....

http://www.ncs-stl.com/tuning/

Most of this stuff can be done in Excel or Open Office but you would need to be good a graphing.  I elect to use Megalogviewer HD as it was designed from day one as a engine management graphing tool and it is really fairly cheep.  It should open up any Power Commander data log directly.  It should open up any TTS log if the log is exported out of the TTS software as a CSV file.  TTS DM3 files often open directly.

Have fun tuning

Andy

[North Georgia Hawg]

Now that's funny Steve.
A thread for all those that can't get along on that other site that want to come over here and bash you.
Cool!
Are there really people that petty?

 

SBB

Chip - I guess you haven't been over there. I have, and yes, there are LOTS of petty people over there. That's why I quit going there.

Ken

[Twolanerider]

My dogs do scatter graphs all over the yard.  Try to mow often enough don't have to pick them up otherwise.

[North Georgia Hawg]

My dogs do scatter graphs all over the yard.  Try to mow often enough don't have to pick them up otherwise.

When we bought the Badger Den last November, the first thing I had done was to have a large area in the woods fenced in for our three dogs to do their "scatter charts"... I sure don't wanna SEE 'em!

Ken

[grc]

Some of us were quick to jump on those folks from that other site about taking over some of our threads with their self promotion and little arguments, and they have set up a couple threads of their own to discuss topics near and dear to them without constantly trying to hijack everyone else's threads.  It seemed to me that we were all starting to coexist peacefully, so it's a little disturbing that some of us feel a need to demean Andy and his charts.  The title of the thread is pretty simple and self explanatory, so I would assume that people who don't care about scatter graphs could just refrain from clicking on it and go to the next thread.

If I'm reading something into this that really isn't there, I apologize.

Jerry

[North Georgia Hawg]

Some of us were quick to jump on those folks from that other site about taking over some of our threads with their self promotion and little arguments, and they have set up a couple threads of their own to discuss topics near and dear to them without constantly trying to hijack everyone else's threads.  It seemed to me that we were all starting to coexist peacefully, so it's a little disturbing that some of us feel a need to demean Andy and his charts.  The title of the thread is pretty simple and self explanatory, so I would assume that people who don't care about scatter graphs could just refrain from clicking on it and go to the next thread.

If I'm reading something into this that really isn't there, I apologize.

Jerry

It's just never been explained how all of this data is really useful in improving a Harley tune.

I've been to the page that Andy set up, and I've read it. I just don't get a lot of what he's saying about these scatter charts, what they really show, and how the info can really be used productively to improve a Harley tune.

Now, there's a very good possibility that I'm simply not smart enough to understand all of this... but if Steve Cole doesn't get it, then it either has not been explained effectively, or it really isn't very useful. I can't make that determination.

Ken

[whittlebeast]

NGH

Hang in there and keep reading.  This get really simple and cool once you get the hang of it.

The ECU outputs lines of data that (generally are a snapshot in time of what the motor was seeing at any given moment.  Each one of these rows of data is known as a record.  To keep things simple for now lets picture just MAP, RPM, TPS, Ignition Advance Front and Rear, VE front and VE Rear, 02 volts front and o2 volts rear just to keep it simple.

A scatter plot in it's most basic form, can group together every time that the motor reported some specific MAP and some specific RPM and count up how many times that happened in a ride.  In MLVHD you can pick "Hits" and use the third color to represent how many times MLV saw that exact RPM and MAP and display the hits as color.

Things get a little more interesting when you start adding the third axis to display say average o2 voltage front as you may have hit that combination of MAP and RPM over the ride.

We will take on the more abstract plots later.

Andy

[whittlebeast]

Here is an example.



Horizontal is throttle position limited from 0 to 25%

Vertical is RPM

On the left plot, colors represent average O2 voltage

On the right plot is the same motor but with the widebands displaying AFR in color.

Andy

[hrdtail78]

I am glad I can post anything about TTS and not have the same swingers jump in and bring up the same issue.  IMO is a non issue.  Baiters and haters.  Thanks to the mods for letting us these threads. It is not that we want to argue between ourselves. But would like to have THE argument. Without it being pulled in the exact same direction. Complete BULLchit.  I am still a member (barley) of HTT and think of it as a good site.

I called Andy a troll.  End to a means. Now I can post data, and can see what these scatter graphs can do. Win, win.

[whittlebeast]

Here is a solution to scatter plotting that appears to be rather cool.  This happens to be a Sportster.

http://public.tableausoftware.com/views/at2_log1/MAPvsINJPW?:embed=y&:display_count=no

http://public.tableausoftware.com/profile/mkw87#/

I have not really played with this SW package.

Andy

[SBB]

If I'm reading something into this that really isn't there, I apologize.

Jerry

No problem Jerry!

 

SBB

[SBB]

Chip - I guess you haven't been over there. I have, and yes, there are LOTS of petty people over there. That's why I quit going there.

Ken

Hey Ken

Look forward to meeting you in Maggie Valley!

 

SBB

[whittlebeast]

So no questions on the previous scatter plot?  You all see how to read it?

Andy