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[GregKhougaz]

My SERG's 110 has had a noisy top end since new, Oct.  2008.  Installed the Fullsac exhaust and drilled cat early on.  In August '11, I replaced the head pipe (no cat) and installed Andrews 54s Cam and .030" Cometic  head gasket.  Bike runs very strong but cool compared to stock.  (To me.)  It has also always had starting issues.  Replaced starter clutch twice and still get occasional kick back on starts.  This is alleviated if I push the bike forward against compression stroke before putting it in neutral and starting.   

Took bike into dealer with whom I have a good relationship.  Bike has 44K miles and a couple of months on the ESP. Dealer tells me rear lifters, cam plate and cam are gone.  Thinks starter kick back is related to the overlapping cam.       FWIW, I use Amsoil.  I've talked with Jim at Metal Dragon and Steve Cole at Fullsac and so far plan to:

1.  Replace cam with same Andrews 54s cam.  There are other choices but these seem to work for me and none of the alternatives offer a huge difference in performance. 

2.  Install SE Billet Cam Plate  #2528-11  ($429)   Not sure how much addition $$ over regular. 

3.  Install SE Big Twin Compensator (new for '13) #42200064 ($299)   Not sure how much addition $$ over regular.

Dealer says I don't need any head work but the experts above suggest I should have them looked at.  I have no experience there and thus don't know the cost or necessity.  I wish I was more convenient to Jim or Steve!   

Question is am I on the right track and what else should I do / consider.  Thanks for reading and any comments! 

GK

[geezerglide]

You really can't go wrong with any of Jim's or Steve's suggestions, I would take theri word over any dealer.

geezerglide

[hdbrad03]

My 09 started having a noise from the rear Exhaust Valve at 34K. So i Pulled the heads. The rear exhaust was starting to stick in the valve guide.

I sent my Heads cylinders to John Sachs:

Replaced Valve Guides, new valve same size a little different profile on the intake valve.
Ported heads and bumped compression to 10.1.
Bored Cylinder 10 over and used Harley Flat Top piston.

This really quieted the motor. I used Dave Mackie 575's.

So at least I would rework the heads and get the valve guides renewed, bore the cylinder so they are true. I'm in process of applying new SE compensator. I have an older version with 20K and it is starting to wear and make noise.

 

   Brad

[prodrag1320]

any kick back from the starter would be cause by the tune not being right (timing too far advanced)if you liked the 54`s,go back with them (ide go with S&S .570`s,set the compression @ 10.0-1 with some headwork featuring 1.900/1.610 valves)and no reason for the SE cam plate,stock is fine

[Midnight Rider]

GK...Since you're really not having to pull the head to do what you're doing, it makes it a little harder to decide on what to do, BUT...If it was me, and I had those miles on the bike, I would go ahead and pull the heads off and have them at least cleaned up, valve stem seals replaced, seats checked, etc.  If you wanted to go one small step further, without going ape chit about it, you could consult with Jim or Steve and get their advice on whether to do any additional work on the heads which might allow the use of a slightly different cam that would still keep you in that TQ range you like for a touring bike (2200-4500, give or take).  While you have the heads off, they could also check for any signs of abnormal wear on the cylinder walls, check the pistons, etc.  If you don't go nuts on the head work, the cost and down time would be relatively insignificant.

But certainly, Jim or Steve would be the ones to talk with further about the heads, particularly whether you could take the opportunity to change the springs out for something not quite so hard on the valve train.  I would have no reservations whatsoever taking their advice/suggestions.

Just a thought...

[grc]

Actually the most likely cause for the starting problems is the compensator, especially if you're still running the stock piece and even if you changed to the SE version previously (they wear out rather quickly).  So I would definitely do the compensator.

What is "gone" about the lifters, cams, and cam plate?  Did the lifter rollers fail and take out the cams?  If so and there is metal spread around in the engine, it will take more than just changing those parts to give you a decent result.

If you plan to keep this bike for a significant amount of time and miles I'd suggest you also have the heads checked out (guides, valves, rockers, breathers, etc.), and it wouldn't be a bad idea at 44k miles to have them do a leakdown test before they tear the engine down.  If you have any cylinder or ring issues it would be good to have those taken care of while you're doing all this other work.  And if the cam plate is "gone" means the bore for the pinion shaft is egg shaped, definitely have the crank runout checked.  

Jerry

[aclass]

Hate to hear the rotten news Greg but glad you still have the warranty.  I'm also glad that I changed my compensator and lifters.  To grc's point, my SE compensator is nearing the 20K mile mark and I truly believe it's going bad.  I'm starting to hear it when shutting the bike down.
Good luck on the rebuild.

[GregKhougaz]

Thanks everyone for the good info and advice!  Going to meet with the service rep tomorrow and proceed.  Have already ordered the cam and gasket.  Have to see how much I can get done on the ESP.  Check on the compensator.  Don't know how much extra the SE cam plate is but it may be one of those "while your there" items even if I don't need it.  We'll see. 

Doing the heads makes sense.  $$ ?? 

I'll report on progress.  Thanks again! 

GK

[VANAMAL]

Ditto on the heads greg. While your doing work include the heads,lifters etc

[Gettinold]

Greg there are always many questions when planning a engine upgrade and IMO (just saying) if I lived as close to Metal Dragon as you do that's where my bike would go if I had to ship it to him! Let him tear it down and get it properly diagnosed. 
Good luck with it either way you go!
            Dave

[YELLOWBIRD]

Greg,

Please post what upgrades you are going to do. Having the same model year bike and Color. (the fastest color  )

I am interested in your results and upgrades.

Happy Labor Day Weekend!

YB

[hdbrad03]

Thanks everyone for the good info and advice!  Going to meet with the service rep tomorrow and proceed.  Have already ordered the cam and gasket.  Have to see how much I can get done on the ESP.  Check on the compensator.  Don't know how much extra the SE cam plate is but it may be one of those "while your there" items even if I don't need it.  We'll see. 

Doing the heads makes sense.  $$ ?? My cost approx. $1200.00 

I'll report on progress.  Thanks again! 

GK

 


    Brad

[HD Street Performance]

Fixing the heads really is new valves, guides and seals. I use only AV&V products.
Airflow improvements are additional and at that level of build are not really justified in my opinion. Yes there is a bit more power to be had but the cam is so conservative not much is realized. The parts improvements assures stronger materials, a tighter stem to guide fit and less oil consumption. The concentric valve job assures quiet operation and long guide and seal life. These are reliability improvements done first before worrying about airflow.
I have had many come in with stuck rear valves and the worst of them pull the guide out of the head. I have also seen many with troughed valve stems which is a strength of materials issue on the hardened tip. HD now finally has a good seal but the guide fit is still loose from the inception which accelerates seal wear. Ironically with this new improved seal in hand they choose to use the same Klines that gave trouble on the 07 heads on the newest MVA heads. Shame on them.

[TorqueInc]

My SERG's 110 has had a noisy top end since new, Oct.  2008.  Installed the Fullsac exhaust and drilled cat early on.  In August '11, I replaced the head pipe (no cat) and installed Andrews 54s Cam and .030" Cometic  head gasket.  Bike runs very strong but cool compared to stock.  (To me.)  It has also always had starting issues.  Replaced starter clutch twice and still get occasional kick back on starts.  This is alleviated if I push the bike forward against compression stroke before putting it in neutral and starting.   

Took bike into dealer with whom I have a good relationship.  Bike has 44K miles and a couple of months on the ESP. Dealer tells me rear lifters, cam plate and cam are gone.  Thinks starter kick back is related to the overlapping cam.       FWIW, I use Amsoil.  I've talked with Jim at Metal Dragon and Steve Cole at Fullsac and so far plan to:

1.  Replace cam with same Andrews 54s cam.  There are other choices but these seem to work for me and none of the alternatives offer a huge difference in performance. 

2.  Install SE Billet Cam Plate  #2528-11  ($429)   Not sure how much addition $$ over regular. 

3.  Install SE Big Twin Compensator (new for '13) #42200064 ($299)   Not sure how much addition $$ over regular.

Dealer says I don't need any head work but the experts above suggest I should have them looked at.  I have no experience there and thus don't know the cost or necessity.  I wish I was more convenient to Jim or Steve!   

Question is am I on the right track and what else should I do / consider.  Thanks for reading and any comments! 

GK

  With that many miles on the top end you might be better off if you intend to keep the bike to have the heads worked over based on your specific build.

  Every set I have had in here the last 6 months the guides were all well out of spec and even tho a few had had been tuned,had cams,AC and pipes

installed the factory lean settings cooked the heads pretty good.

   Would strongly suggest having the heads look at by a professional shop and if need be have them reworked with new guides valves and especially a good set of beehive springs suited to the cam you decide on.

  If you bump the compression a tick or two and have the heads gone over a KURY 24 or GMR  Genesis cam would be your best bet as they have the low end you are looking for and make very broad torque....something the 54 while a decent cam will not do.

[GregKhougaz]

Thanks again for the help and information!

Progress!  ESP will cover Lifter and compensator replacement without inspection.  Estimate for that is about $1600 thus far.  Just over $900 for parts (plus extra cost of upgrades).  I'll get a list.   That puts me way ahead of the game on the ESP which already did a clutch hub assembly for about $900 two years ago.  Dealer agrees I don't need the SE Cam plate and thinks that would just cause issues if I renew the ESP.  Yes on SE oil pump. 

We are going to send the heads out for rework,  new valves, guides and seals plus maybe a small compression bump.  Dealer clarified that it was not necessary to pull head unless I planned to service them but agreed it's a good idea.  They use B ____ in Ventura, CA and as I type this I am blanking on the name even though I had previously hear of them.  Dealer gives them the specifics of my build and they service accordingly. 

I'll get a draft and update with specifics but I'm encouraged.