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[Mountainman streetbob]

Soooooo. A local group of tech savvy motorheads (19 of us in the same bar!) were having a bs session at a local watering hole when someone mentions his disappointment in his low end torque with his frshly tuned, cammed, headed and exhausted 110" 2013 cvo batwing... Everyone drinking could name a half dozen cams for 3000rpm+ BUT we were really hard pressed to back up a real low end cam we have personally seen grunt from 2200 rpm to 4000 rpm hold and scream to 6250+....

In the parking lot we counted 14 of our cvo's or 110's of one kind or another as well as a few 96's nd a 88 all waiting to grow bigger! Road Kings, Road Glides, Softtail convertibles, switchback, dyna all twin cams, ridden here in the mid south.  We came to the conclusion that maybe we are just suffering from a lack of tuning or our builds were set up too conservatively due to high heat and humidity?
Singh grooves are on 5 bikes, Didn't seem to hurt any of them and lowered or eliminated pinging on all 5 during the heat of July/August... Interesting
PC5 and TTS sure seem to require less tuning time than SERT from what we have seen and have better results.
None of us had a moco cam... Interesting
Only 1 of us had scissored a crank... SO FAR! lol 6 had welded/trued cranks and 1 had an s&s crank
We all considered a 117 or 124 to be a better choice but the $$$ to get there made maximizing the 110 a priority.
Maybe we expect too much?

We came up with the following criteria to ask of our friends, acquaintances, tuners, ouija boards and anyone with an opinion...

What cam doesn't fall on it's face from 4k to 6.2k when paired with a 2-1 exhaust (drago's, rb-lsr, Bassani road rage 2, v&h pro pipe etc) some of us agreed a properly built 2 into 1 into 2 was also acceptable (fullsac was represented) high flow 55mm-62mm throttle body (hpi, moco, s&s) and High flow heads set up for .650 lift. We all run pump gas. We all want 100ft lbs before 2500rpm and want or have 125-140 ft lbs by 3500rpm-4000rpm and have 130+ hp at 6250.


What is a proven low end cam (2200rpm-3500rpm) that will continue to scream right to 6250+?

We came up with the following as cams we have seen work ourselves and cams that are close but not quite there:
1. woods 408-6 (set up right has grunt on bottom and screams to 6250)

We came up with this list of honorable mentions?
1. woods 400 (great bottom limited top end maybe heads not flowing?maybe 50mm tb?)
2. reaper 594 (soft on bottom great mid top, low compression? shows great potential)
3. tw-8 (soft on bottom great mid top, low compression? ccp 190)
4. wt 26 and wt 46 (soft on bottom great mid top, low compression?ccp 185/195)
5. S&S 640 (soft on bottom great mid top, low compression? ccp 185 ac limiting flow?)
6. tman 662-1 (set up right has grunt on bottom and screams to 6250 local tuner issue only turned 120/115?)
7. tman 662-2 (soft on bottom great mid top, shows great potential? low compression, conservative tuning?)


We are looking for suggestions as we have all seen mixed results!

What cam/pipe/heads/tuner works for you?

Thanks from the mid south! 

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Wood 408 set @ 10.6 cr.
Scott

[Heatwave]

I have Woods 408-6 with 58mm TB, Headwork, 5.3 injectors, roller rockers, D&D Fatcat and a Powervision tuner. It's delivering everything you said you're looking for. I have 36,000 miles and the engine is still going strong.

[ImBroke]

tman 660SM in my 120R set at 10.8:1

[TorqueInc]

   For a bagger or dyna/softail ?

[Mountainman streetbob]

We are would love suggestions for baggers and softtails.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

I have Woods 408-6 with 58mm TB, Headwork, 5.3 injectors, roller rockers, D&D Fatcat and a Powervision tuner. It's delivering everything you said you're looking for. I have 36,000 miles and the engine is still going strong.

 Pete, your pushing more trouble-free miles than that of some OEM-untouched machines.
Scott

[Heatwave]

Pete, your pushing more trouble-free miles than that of some OEM-untouched machines.
Scott

In fact I just finished 2800 mile trip to Milwaukee for the 110th celebration. I was 2up with my wife and a lot of luggage for a 10 day trip. The bike ran terrific. It's worth noting that the bottom end, pistons and jugs are all stock.

I'd say the only downside to this setup is valve train noise. The combination of the .650 lift of the Woods 408-6 cam plus Woods upgraded valve springs can be abit noisy but the range of power trade off is definitely worth it. Besides, it's hard to really hear the top end anyways over the sound of the Fatcat!

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Never saw that dyno sheet and the numbers you have are ..... close but you have one kit. Lets see this done several more times on several engines. I have seen only a few make this type of power and not with this kit...  

 Add in the amount of noise that cam makes 99% would never deal with that every day , Cam makes great power but the offset of noise well select few will keep it.

One bike one tuner.. end of the day its a great bike , but until you can produce a 130/130 ++   run on pump gas have it make that power on several dyno's  110 CI  complete package and is repeatable,..... all you have is one dyno sheet. Not taking from your build.  If you can re post the dyno sheet that would show the curve at least .

trying to produce 1.20 per cube is a hard deal for a 110 .. money not well spent  if the numbers are the high in my opinion,  Bigger CI is much easier , you will take care of other known issue as well .

[Heatwave]

Never saw that dyno sheet and the numbers you have are ..... close but you have one kit. Lets see this done several more times on several engines. I have seen only a few make this type of power and not with this kit...  

 Add in the amount of noise that cam makes 99% would never deal with that every day , Cam makes great power but the offset of noise well select few will keep it.

One bike one tuner.. end of the day its a great bike , but until you can produce a 130/130 ++  package  pump gas have a it make that power on several dyno's that is 110 CI and is repeatable,..... all you have is one dyno sheet. Not taking from your build.  If you can re post the dyno sheet that would show the curve at least .

trying to produce 1.20 per cube is a hard deal  money not well spent in my opinion,

For the record, the 129/129 #s are "actual" on the day it was dynoed. STD #s are 126/126 and SAE #s are 123/123. I've posted my dyno sheet here many times in the past. It's not that the 408-6 cam makes more noise than other .650 lift cams. But as you know if you want power across the entire rpm range you'll need a relatively high lift cam. While my drivetrain is abit noisy (although compared to stock its not that much noisier since I thought the stock was also noisy), it's probably not any noisier than any other hi-lift cam.

Given the OP's post, noise wasn't a factor. It sounded like he was seeking the highest performance with the best low-end and hi-end combo. I would say the average guy isn't going to look to wring the last bit our power out of his 110, but for those that do, this is a solid combination IMO. I personally can attest to the #1 conclusion his buddies came to. Great performance and so far great reliability out of my Woods 408-6 with the proper headwork, springs, larger injectors, larger TB and tuning with a stock bottom end and stock pistons.

[joe_lyons50023]

How about dragos blower cam and a procharger, or aerocharger.  That will blow away most any other cams.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

For the record, the 129/129 #s are "actual" on the day it was dynoed. STD #s are 126/126 and SAE #s are 123/123. I've posted my dyno sheet here many times in the past. It's not that the 408-6 cam makes more noise than other .650 lift cams. But as you know if you want power across the entire rpm range you'll need a relatively high lift cam. While my drivetrain is abit noisy (although compared to stock its not that much noisier since I thought the stock was also noisy), it's probably not any noisier than any other hi-lift cam.

Given the OP's post, noise wasn't a factor. It sounded like he was seeking the highest performance with the best low-end and hi-end combo. I would say the average guy isn't going to look to wring the last bit our power out of his 110, but for those that do, this is a solid combination IMO. I personally can attest to the #1 conclusion his buddies came to. Great performance and so far great reliability out of my Woods 408-6 with the proper headwork, springs, larger injectors, larger TB and tuning with a stock bottom end and stock pistons.

You may have posted it I do not recall looking at it. SO lets go to the next step SAE power you are 123/123  good power but that is not even close to the specs posted..   Again not bashing your build ,  I am sure you like.  Cam wise we can agree to dis agree , all good with that.


Joe I would agree bolt on a pro charger and one of  many many cams into the engine and be done. However it not going to build the big low end tq fast enough for what they are looking for. Peak numbers sure will 

Who was it that posted up a challenge to build the 110 for a 130/130+ SAE build .. still waiting to see that..

[Heatwave]

You may have posted it I do not recall looking at it. SO lets go to the next step SAE power you are 123/123  good power but that is not even close to the specs posted..   Again not bashing your build ,  I am sure you like.  Cam wise we can agree to dis agree , all good with that.


Joe I would agree bolt on a pro charger and one of  many many cams into the engine and be done. However it not going to build the big low end tq fast enough for what they are looking for. Peak numbers sure will 

Who was it that posted up a challenge to build the 110 for a 130/130+ SAE build .. still waiting to see that..

Agreed. From my reading, I haven't seen anyone get 130/130+ SAE out of a natural 110. My 123/123 SAE is one of the highest although I think I've seen a few higher but they were also with a Woods 408-6cam. I'd be interested in seeing a dyno of a 110 with more than 123/123SAE with a different cam for comparison. Have you been able to build one greater than 123/123 (natural)?

[hd-dude]

T-man 625!   I have done many builds with this cam that have the torque curve you are looking for. Here is the dyno of my own bike, a 113" with CVO 110 heads and fullsac exhaust.

[Heatwave]

T-man 625!   I have done many builds with this cam that have the torque curve you are looking for. Here is the dyno of my own bike, a 113" with CVO 110 heads and fullsac exhaust.

Nice curve but it is a 113. Has anyone gotten close to these types of #s with a 110?