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[CVOStreetglide]

Ever bring your own Ribeye to a fancy restaurant and ask them to cook it? Guaranteed, they will burn the crap out of it and tell you it was no good. When you take your bike to a shop with a dyno after you spent your hard earned dollars with someone else getting their parts and tuner, the same thing is going to happen. They are going to burn your baseline and tell you the tune is no good. Just like when the wife gets the free Brake inspection at Midas, the whole car is junk.  Double Copper, I honestly don't know who you. But I'm sure if you told me your bike was making 84 hp after your local dyno guy ran it, well things most likely went down hill fast after that. I have a low tolerance for dyno games and associated BS. My parts make the same numbers over and over. 84 HP is laughable , that's less than stock. Lol.. My apologies if my attitude was less than professional and you didn't receive satisfactory tech assistance. 94 HP is still weak. Any time you want to make the trek to Lake Havasu you have a free dyno session on me. Sit back, have a cold beverage, flirt with Cammy while I see if I can get 98HP out of it like all the other Stage I CVOs that leave my shop. Your brakes and your steak will be fine too.

Steve@fullsac.com

    


You couldn't ask for more support than that!!



FWIW:  Steve isn't alone in his reaction to other vendors comments about his end product.

Ask somebody from New York what would happen if they did that at Rosa's shop.     

[INDEPENDENT_1]

If the dyno being used has a strain gauge like the one we use here, finding peak torque at every throttle position and in every rpm range is what tuning is all about.

[the jacobite]

Steve Cole must be the best reason to emigrate America.

[Dr.D]

I bought the DX Pipe, 1,75 baffle, TTS and canned map from Fullsac. I waited for weeks for the HD dealer to get his dyno working but they never did. They installed the map and then the tech said he tuned it while riding it to dial it in. I was not confident that the tune was good enough so I took it to another dealer that has done most all my work and that I trust a lot. They put it on the dyno, and then pulled it off. They said they could not improve it with a custom tune. In my case the canned map from Steve and the work of the first dealer was done right the first time.

Now could i take it to five more tuners and go up and down the performance numbers? I bet I could but how many times do you have to do it to finally accept that it is fine. If the famous Doc tunes it could another guy get .005% improvement? Who the F cares. I do think it is possible for a canned map that is matched well to the bike to be pretty close to a custom tune.

[98fxstc]

I do think it is possible for a canned map that is matched well to the bike to be pretty close to a custom tune.

Yes , its a possibility.
What is the probability ?

[Fullsac Performance]

Just an FYI,
Every single Harley Touring model sold this year had a "canned map" loaded in it. That's right, not a single Touring model dyno tuned before delivery. Happened last year too. So far, all of the new Harleys I have bought ran fine with out dyno tuning and just a "canned map". Good milage, no flat spots or hesitations. Being the suspicious type, I put every one of my new bikes straight into the dyno room for break in and to check the tune. AFR lines at full throttle have been dead straight across the page on ever stock Harley I have checked. Obviously, Harley spent hours perfecting their "canned map".  More evidence that a good dyno developed map from one bike works fine in the next bike if everything is the same. If your going to use a canned map you have to read the label. A fuel map developed with a 2 into one isn't going to be even close for True duals. Anytime you start mixing your parts and stray away from the list of ingredients in the can, results decline your need a reputable dyno tuner increases. Like a chiropractor, you have to find a good tuner that won't make the problem worse. If your in Florida, Texas or Arizona this is easy. For many others, simply following a proven recipe to get your bike really cooking can be less of a challenge.   

Steve@fullsac.com

[ultrarider123]

Any time you want to make the trek to Lake Havasu you have a free dyno session on me. Sit back, have a cold beverage, flirt with Cammy while I see if I can get 98HP out of it like all the other Stage I CVOs that leave my shop. Steve@fullsac.com

That right there is putting your money/business where your mouth is.  Very good response, Steve.

[Para Bellum]

Ever bring your own Ribeye to a fancy restaurant and ask them to cook it? Guaranteed, they will burn the crap out of it and tell you it was no good. When you take your bike to a shop with a dyno after you spent your hard earned dollars with someone else getting their parts and tuner, the same thing is going to happen. They are going to burn your baseline and tell you the tune is no good. Just like when the wife gets the free Brake inspection at Midas, the whole car is junk.  Double Copper, I honestly don't know who you are. But I'm sure if you told me your bike was making 84 hp after your local dyno guy ran it, well things most likely went down hill fast after that. I have a low tolerance for dyno games and associated BS. My parts make the same numbers over and over. 84 HP is laughable , that's less than stock. Lol.. My apologies if my attitude was less than professional and you didn't receive satisfactory tech assistance. 94 HP is still weak. Any time you want to make the trek to Lake Havasu you have a free dyno session on me. Sit back, have a cold beverage, flirt with Cammy while I see if I can get 98HP out of it like all the other Stage I CVOs that leave my shop. Your brakes and your steak will be fine too.

Steve@fullsac.com

All I wanted was to get what I paid for.  I paid close to $1000 and had no improvement over stock.  When I asked for assistance, I got none.  That's my complaint. 

It's your business.  Run it the way you want.  If your feelings got hurt b/c I presented proof that something was wrong, well...that's how you run your business.  Don't expect repeat business from me.  You are going to have trouble staying in business if you can't deal with the occasional mistake any better than this.

I understand that honest mistakes happen, and that good businesses will correct them.  You didn't.  Tells me all I need to know.  And what's this about "I don't know you?"  What does that have to do with anything?  I never said or implied that, so why the guilty denial?

Sophistry.  That describes what you did with the "free" dyno tune offer--meaning, it sounds good on the surface, but it's worthless underneath.  First, I already stated I had it re-tuned.  Second, if I had to use 8 days of limited vacation time to get a tune, with expenses for motels, restaurant meals, gas, tires, and wear-and-tear, to go to a guy with your attitude...I wouldn't, and I wouldn't feel comfortable doing so.  Too many places want my business to go to someone who would make such an insulting offer because their pride got in the way of doing the right thing. 

In addition to the above, you have made some incorrect assumptions here, so let me correct them.  First, the reason I dyno'd it was because it didn't run any better than stock.  This is the most important thing.  Second, I don't chase numbers, as I realize all dynos and operators differ. Third, the dyno operator knew upfront he wasn't going to sell me another tune or a module since I had TTS, but did not have the dongle with me.

Did he rig the HP/TQ numbers just to spite you?  Did he rig the 14.7:1 AFR across the WOT run?  Did he make the bike run worse than stock?  Get over yourself, and take some medication for that paranoid huge ego.  And work on your business and interpersonal skills.

[Para Bellum]

SBB:

I don't know you personally, but I have formed an impression of you from your posts.  You don't strike me as a guy who would fork out $1000 to make his bike run better, get nothing for it, and not try to get it fixed...and then be happy that you got 'tude from the vendor, still not get it fixed, and then take it lying down.

I posted only after giving FS a chance to fix what was probably an honest mistake.  He didn't, and then he let his hurt feelings do the talking.  And you get snarky because yours runs well.  No surprise, really; you usually talk out the anatomical part of your opinion.


CVO Streetglide and Haird:

That offer wasn't support or "putting it".  See "Sophistry" in my post above for an explanation.
The problem wasn't the dyno run.  The bike ran poorly with his map.  FS is deflecting the conversation away from the real issue.


HOGMIKE:

Is refusing to correct a problem, and getting rude with the customer, "doing the best we can?"  This has nothing to do with "pleasing all the people."  That's a platitude used to excuse poor performance.

[Fullsac Performance]

All I wanted was to get what I paid for.  I paid close to $1000 and had no improvement over stock.  When I asked for assistance, I got none.  That's my complaint. 

It's your business.  Run it the way you want.  If your feelings got hurt b/c I presented proof that something was wrong, well...that's how you run your business.  Don't expect repeat business from me.  You are going to have trouble staying in business if you can't deal with the occasional mistake any better than this.

I understand that honest mistakes happen, and that good businesses will correct them.  You didn't.  Tells me all I need to know.  And what's this about "I don't know you?"  What does that have to do with anything?  I never said or implied that, so why the guilty denial?

Sophistry.  That describes what you did with the "free" dyno tune offer--meaning, it sounds good on the surface, but it's worthless underneath.  First, I already stated I had it re-tuned.  Second, if I had to use 8 days of limited vacation time to get a tune, with expenses for motels, restaurant meals, gas, tires, and wear-and-tear, to go to a guy with your attitude...I wouldn't, and I wouldn't feel comfortable doing so.  Too many places want my business to go to someone who would make such an insulting offer because their pride got in the way of doing the right thing. 

In addition to the above, you have made some incorrect assumptions here, so let me correct them.  First, the reason I dyno'd it was because it didn't run any better than stock.  This is the most important thing.  Second, I don't chase numbers, as I realize all dynos and operators differ. Third, the dyno operator knew upfront he wasn't going to sell me another tune or a module since I had TTS, but did not have the dongle with me.

Did he rig the HP/TQ numbers just to spite you?  Did he rig the 14.7:1 AFR across the WOT run?  Did he make the bike run worse than stock?  Get over yourself, and take some medication for that paranoid huge ego.  And work on your business and interpersonal skills.

Wow!  Wasn't trying to lite your fuse. I still don't know your name or even who you are? All I'm saying is I can't pull your file and try to figure this out. Something tells me I would remember you if I knew your name?. OK, so I think I have a pretty clear picture now. My parts were good, the free tune was bad, and I was a dick and wouldn't help? Nothing is ringing a bell on this one? Occasionally a guy will bolt on my exhaust and not get the tune correctly downloaded. It happens. You ride the bike and yes, it doesn't feel much if any faster because its way lean. Like 14.7 lean just like you describe. You call me for help and I most likely told you to check the download and then what? Did we have words, piss each other off? Even when people piss me off I smile and keep working with them as its in my best interest to have there bike running right. I didn't offer to send another map? Make changes? Doesn't make sense? I still send out that same map everyday with out issue? Maybe its possible it wasn't actually loaded? Any chance? Doesn't matter now. Glad your bike is running good now.

Ride safe, happy holidays.

Steve@fullsac.com

PS, At your next opportunity, wipe your ass with my free shirt. Best for both of us if you don't wear it anymore. Thanks!

[SBB]

No surprise, really; you usually talk out the anatomical part of your opinion.

Interesting.
You choose to bash Steve @ Fullsac, then me ( ), then CVO Streetglide, then Haird, then HOGMIKE.
We are seeing a pattern here in the way you deal with people that disagree with you.
Fortunately as you bash Fullsac there will be many many others that respond to your negativity with positive comments.
So bash away DC, you are only causing the Fullsac phone to ring with orders for Steve's great product.

 

SBB

[Kosmic Ken]

I'm always reading the threads on "canned" maps vs dyno. I ran my 2012 cvosg with the fullsac set up inc. tts,  and their map. The bike ran so good that i never bothered having it dyno'd. Whats got me curious is. How many people dyno'd their bikes after running canned maps for a while, (any brand of tuner and map) And how much of an increase did they gain in hp & tq? Was it worth the dyno tune, or just piece of mind? Obviously a stage two would make a bigger difference than a stage one, but curious to see the numbers.

I'm not sure this really answers your question. However, if you want to see / know the best tuner I know of in Western Canada you will have to go to Nanaimo,Vancouver Island and have Russel at Lonewolf Performance do a complete tune on your bike. He was trained by "Doc" Webster? (Florida) and is recommended by him. Kane's (your closest local dealer) in Kelowna knows of him.

[WJS]

[

PS, At your next opportunity, wipe your ass with my free shirt. Best for both of us if you don't wear it anymore. Thanks!


Priceless! like your style Steve.

[HOGMIKE]

All I wanted was to get what I paid for.  I paid close to $1000 and had no improvement over stock.  When I asked for assistance, I got none.  That's my complaint. 

IMO, valid argument, I think it's uncharacteristic for that company to not respond to a customer complaint, but sometimes things fall through the cracks. Maybe you are one of those cracks?
 
From my own PERSONAL EXPERIENCE dealing with Fullsac has always been fair and timely.
Sorry to hear your experience was less than stellar but sh/t happens, right?
JMHO as usual.
 

[DOWNTOWN DON]

I'm not sure this really answers your question. However, if you want to see / know the best tuner I know of in Western Canada you will have to go to Nanaimo,Vancouver Island and have Russel at Lonewolf Performance do a complete tune on your bike. He was trained by "Doc" Webster? (Florida) and is recommended by him. Kane's (your closest local dealer) in Kelowna knows of him.

Thx. That was gonna be my next question. (GOOD tuner) Talked with kanes, and Kamloops harley,(my dealer of choice) and they both said they have dyno'd with the tts, yet neither sounded very confident.