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[HD Street Performance]

In most of the builds yes, money better spent to get the crank true and welded so the cam plate bushing and oil pump are preserved and the motor runs smooth.

[Mr. Warlock]

so am i to understand that up grading the cam plate and oil pump is a waste of money ?

I disagree. I don't think that anyone can argue that a cam plate with "real" bushings is not better than the cams running in aluminum journals. I can't even comprehend that this is done. I don't think they need anymore pressure than stock but increased scavenging equals better performance and efficiency.

I did a boat load of research before deciding on T-Man's Cam Plate and Stage 3 pump. These are quality pieces and work, blow off is adjusted correctly. There are a couple of others that are in the same ball bark but these are the ones that I chose.

If any choose the T-Man Stage 3 pump make sure you remember that it does not have the back flow plate (not enough room for it) and therefore the oil will drain back into the engine while it sits not running. This hurts nothing and is immediately returned to the tank upon start up. Check your oil right after shutting down for an accurate reading otherwise you will overfill.

If you go to the trouble of changing these make sure you install the good inner cam bearings.

[Midnight Rider]

No matter what you put in there, if the shaft wobbles excessively, something is going to eventually fail.

[spydglide]

No matter what you put in there, if the shaft wobbles excessively, something is going to eventually fail.

Nothing lasts forever........not even a good Glare shine.  har.   spyder

[bigdave110]

No matter what you put in there, if the shaft wobbles excessively, something is going to eventually fail.

x2 X3 and x4.
A untrue shaft will kill the best, or worst cam plate and pump.

[digga25]

Not according to the moco. How can they change the tolerance on the pinion shaft on a whim, because their shafts are all out beyond thier original spec.So to save a lot of hassle for them just change the spec. BS. Thats why I yanked all the crap out of the heart and replaced it with after market. Now its quiet and runs cooler.So eff it.

[digga25]

I agree that aluminum journals are a bomb waiting for the fuse to be lit.Should be bushed with a brass bushing.But how much torque is on that side of the cams?

[HD Street Performance]

I agree that aluminum journals are a bomb waiting for the fuse to be lit

Doesn't seem to be the case in the real world now that these motors are aging, nor is it the case in the majority of OHC car applications and other motorcycles. Gear drive and crank run out hell yes the plain bearings will go but so would the bronze bushings.

[djkak]

I agree that aluminum journals are a bomb waiting for the fuse to be lit

Doesn't seem to be the case in the real world now that these motors are aging, nor is it the case in the majority of OHC car applications and other motorcycles. Gear drive and crank run out hell yes the plain bearings will go but so would the bronze bushings.

Exactly…it’s a non issue. 

[Z10]

If you thought the oil pressure on 07 and later bikes was bad, you shouldn't have looked at the oil gauge on the older models.

Got that right.  At idle no matter what the temp was, OP was always off the peg on my 1995 Evo FLHT.  It's a much different story with the 06 FLHTCUSE...even with a cold OAT, you'd swear the oil pressure is 0 at idle. Relying on strictly on the light. Just below 30 when cruising. Took me a little while to get used to these new readings. Would love to run a direct pressure gage in tandem and see what it reads.

[Z10]

TCinBham, Deweysheads, and djkak are right on the money.  Of course, money is at the root of this entire discussion, as in the money those companies make selling unnecessary "racing" products to Harley riders.  It's a bit like the folks who made money selling those powertrain stabilizers to reduce bagger wobble (rear steer).  When Harley changed the frame, swingarm, and engine mounting system in '09 to address the underlying causes of the problem, complaints about the wobble dried up for the most part.  But those companies and even a few new ones continued to push the stabilizer products for the new models.  Not because they were needed, but because they wanted the easy profits.  I look at this oil pump stuff as the same sort of thing. 

A Twin Cam is designed for X amount of oil flow, and that flow is controlled by the size of various passages in the cam plate and the engine cases as well as check valves for things like piston cooling jets, not just the volume rating of the pump itself.  At normal operating temperatures, the spec for oil pressure is 30-36 psi @ 2000 rpm.  If that's what yours measures, I don't see a need to dig into both the cam chest and your pocket to change anything.  If yours doesn't produce specified pressure, then I suggest a little diagnostic work to determine exactly why it's low.  May not have a thing to do with pump volume, it could be a sticking relief valve or check valve for the cooling jets or some other issue.

The oil system is just that, a SYSTEM.  Changing out one part of that system without considering the overall effect is not a great idea.  But by all means, go ahead and believe all the sales pitches.  Folks selling stuff would never mislead anyone, would they?


Jerry

In 2003 I was traveling back to Las Vegas after visiting familiy on the east coast. It was the week before the HD 100th anniversary bash. After checking into a hotel in Williams AZ, a group of bikers pulled in for the night. They were heading to Milwaukee. Two of them were from Austrailia and had their bikes shipped to San Diego. One of the riders was on a bike powered by a Feuling W3. That evening we talked about his bike. He also told me he was asked to help the MoCo in the development of the TC88, specificaly he lube system. In the early stages he told HD engineers the pressures they were going with was too low. He gave up arguing with them and got out of program....and had the Fueling oil pump ready to go just after the TC88 hit the streets in 1999.

[HD Street Performance]

One mans opinion, now years later we can look back at the failures and say the MOCO was right. Nothing against Feuling, who this man was obviously affiliated, but we have seen a whole barrage of failures over the years and none that I can remember is due to lack of lubrication. The MOCO actually reduced the oil flow in early development to LOWER heat successfully. You can read about this here and also see how the oiling system issues delayed the release of the first twin cam hence the 1998 EVO with MM EFI, which was originally scheduled to be a Twin Cam also a carbed version available .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson_Twin_Cam_engine

If somebody just has a wad of cash and wants to buy their pump go ahead, nothing wrong with it assuming crank run out is slight their pumps are not as forgiving as the MOCO. For that matter neither is the Thayer 3 stage.
This runout item is serious and not just my opinion. Read about it in the attached instruction sheet from Feuling. Remember the MOCO spec is 0-.012 are acceptable values on the late models. Feuling requires <.0025. Most late models without crank mods I have checked would not meet this requirement.

[djkak]

...One of the riders was on a bike powered by a Feuling W3. That evening we talked about his bike. He also told me he was asked to help the MoCo in the development of the TC88, specificaly he lube system. In the early stages he told HD engineers the pressures they were going with was too low. He gave up arguing with them and got out of program....and had the Fueling oil pump ready to go just after the TC88 hit the streets in 1999.

At that time of your discussion the Twin Cam was finishing up its 5th year in service. Did he share any insight regarding specific issues resulting from H-D designing a lubrication system running pressures lower than he recommended?

[HD Street Performance]

Here is an interesting read.
http://www.miamichoppershop.com/id116.html
So you see Jim Feuling was actually involved with the twin cams development.

 "We rebalanced the oil flow," Dennert said, "and cut the oil flow to the heads to one-quarter to one-sixth of what we had previously.  That was adequate for lubrication."  "Oil temperatures 0f 260 and 280 degrees were pretty common before the oil flow change," Metz said, "and that's pretty close to where oil starts to oxidize.  Our target oil temperature was 230, and on the dyno, the (temperature-controlled) oil coolers were on more than they were off.  After the oil flow change, the oil cooler never came on and the oil temperature was pretty much in the 215 to 220 degree range."

[djkak]

Here is an interesting read.
http://www.miamichoppershop.com/id116.html
So you see Jim Feuling was actually involved with the twin cams development.

 "We rebalanced the oil flow," Dennert said, "and cut the oil flow to the heads to one-quarter to one-sixth of what we had previously.  That was adequate for lubrication."  "Oil temperatures 0f 260 and 280 degrees were pretty common before the oil flow change," Metz said, "and that's pretty close to where oil starts to oxidize.  Our target oil temperature was 230, and on the dyno, the (temperature-controlled) oil coolers were on more than they were off.  After the oil flow change, the oil cooler never came on and the oil temperature was pretty much in the 215 to 220 degree range."

Great find…nice job turning up this article.

In an environment where you have to “fight for each degree”, it seems like one hell of a windfall to pull down oil temps 30 degrees by simply reducing the oil supply to the top end by 400% to 600%.

Silly Mechanical Engineers; smoother, cooler, quieter and longer has always been easier to market than less is more.