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[CVOHHHH]

I am a newbie and I have searched to try to find an answer to this question so I apologize in advance if I am not following the correct protocol for this forum .  I have a 2013 CVO Ultra classic and I installed  Vance and Hines true duals last year but kept my stock mufflers because I couldn't afford the V&H mufflers I wanted.  This year I finally saved enough to buy a pair of V&H Monster Rounds and installed them last week.  I have a Harley Davidson super tuner and when I bought the V&H mufflers my dealer said I need to spend $150 to get my bike remapped with a "quick tune" so my bike would run properly with the new mufflers.  I thought that was a lot of money for a quick tune so I called another dealer to see how much it would cost for a quick tune and he said if I was using the stock HD Screamin Eagle mufflers with the V&H true duals before, that I won't need a quick tune if I change to the Monster Rounds.  What are your thoughts....should I spend the money or just try it without the quick tune?  I live in Northern Illinois, so the first time I will be able to try it without the quick tune will be at Bike Week in Daytona in March and I don't want to have my vacation ruined by my bike back firing on decel or other issues. 

[Fullsac Performance]

I am a newbie and I have searched to try to find an answer to this question so I apologize in advance if I am not following the correct protocol for this forum .  I have a 2013 CVO Ultra classic and I installed  Vance and Hines true duals last year but kept my stock mufflers because I couldn't afford the V&H mufflers I wanted.  This year I finally saved enough to buy a pair of V&H Monster Rounds and installed them last week.  I have a Harley Davidson super tuner and when I bought the V&H mufflers my dealer said I need to spend $150 to get my bike remapped with a "quick tune" so my bike would run properly with the new mufflers.  I thought that was a lot of money for a quick tune so I called another dealer to see how much it would cost for a quick tune and he said if I was using the stock HD Screamin Eagle mufflers with the V&H true duals before, that I won't need a quick tune if I change to the Monster Rounds.  What are your thoughts....should I spend the money or just try it without the quick tune?  I live in Northern Illinois, so the first time I will be able to try it without the quick tune will be at Bike Week in Daytona in March and I don't want to have my vacation ruined by my bike back firing on decel or other issues.

Well, where to begin. Your stock CVO mufflers are a little on the restrictive side, that's why they are quiet. The Monster Rounds are the complete
and extreme opposite. So if we were to assume your bike was tuned properly for the stock CVO mufflers, (which is wasn't) we could easily say no way would the tuned be correct for Monsters because of the huge difference in air flow. At this point you need a real tune, not a quick tune to dial in what you have.
As long as you enjoy a loud exhaust and have no need for power below 3K, you have chosen an awesome system!

Ride safe!

SG

[CVOHHHH]

My bad....I failed to mention that when I put on the Vance and Hines head pipes, I purchased the HD super tuner and the dealers service department dialed it in for me ( their service manager said they set it up for the new pipes and my stock SE mufflers).  So, my question is if it was set up in that manner will I still need a quick tune ( or
 even something other than a quick tune) if I change my stock SE mufflers to monster rounds.  Also, in reading your response I'm now wondering if there is anything I can do to increase performance under 3k?

[North Star]

Steve, he has the Monster rounds, not the High Outputs. Didn't think they were that wide open?

[Fullsac Performance]

Steve, he has the Monster rounds, not the High Outputs. Didn't think they were that wide open?

True, the Monster rounds are not quite as open as the Hi outputs, but still a complete retune away from the stock CVO mufflers. As the OP has confirmed, and as I suspected, the installer "set the bike up" for the TDs.       Yes indeed, the dreaded dealer Diltune. 

CVOOOH, to optimize what you have it will require dyno time or a fuel map from an identical bike with the identical parts. Bikes can be different colors, red is not faster. To get the best performance out of True Duals headpipes ,mufflers need to have an inner core no larger than 1.75. Again, we are talking about getting the best performance. If you were happy with the performance before, maybe the "quicktune" and the parts you have will keep the smile on your face? Maybe try it with "no tune"? I see guys riding the worst running bikes ever with big smiles all the time. But if you want it right, proper tuning by a competent individual is money well spent.

SG

[CVOHHHH]

Thanks for your reply Steve.  Although I am a newbie here, I have over 150,000 miles on HD products and I just want to say how great it is to be able to tap into the vast knowledge base of this forum....especially for riders like me who are clearly bush league compared to you guys. 
I originally got the V&H header pipes not because of the sound, but because of the unbelievable amount of heat on the right side of the stock pipes where the cat was.  I was told eliminating the cat would help with the heat issue, and it did.  The stock mufflers were very quiet and I never did like the way they sounded.  Once the bike was dialed in for the new pipes and stock mufflers, I thought the mufflers, although a bit louder, sounded even worse than before if that's possible.  The hard part about buying mufflers is that you have to actually hear a brand to see if you like the way they sound, and even then unless you ride the bike you never really know how they sound to the rider.  I heard the monster rounds and thought they sounded better than my stock mufflers so I bought them.  What I didn't realize that although they have that sort of low, mellow rumble I am looking for at low speeds, once you snap the throttle they bark more than I thought they would.  But since I already own them I will just have to live with them.

I'm not sure what the inner core size is on the V&H Monster Rounds so I'm not sure if I'm getting the optimum performance out of my true duals.  I was never happy with the performance of this bike before but I was told by the dealer that the only way to increase performance in any way was to get cams, and I just couldn't afford it at the time.  I am not sure what the dreaded dealer Diltune is, and I am not one of those guys who was in any way satisfied with the performance of the bike after the new pipes and dealer tune....and that's why I'm here to ask people with much more knowledge than me to help with this issue.  After I installed the pipes and the dealer tuned the bike, I had a pop on decel that the dealer said was normal with aftermarket pipes and a V&H Fuelpak.  He then sold me the HD supertuner and the issue diminished but never went away completely.  I simply want the best performance I can get out of what I have now....but I need some advice on where to go from here.  Would a complete Dyno help?  Is a quick tune a waste of money?  I'm just looking for the best bang for my buck.  I don't mind spending the money on a Dyno or anything else short of new cams that may help.  The dealer is clearly not the best choice for doing work on my bike....his techs are recent MMI grads who come and go like a revolving door, and I'm not sure if they are even qualified to do a quick tune, let alone a dyno.  I live in Rockford Illinois and would welcome any advice that you or anyone else can give me.  I would love to have this bike running correctly and optimize it's performance as best I can prior to leaving for Daytona.  I didn't mean to ramble, I'm just trying to explain.  Thanks!  Michael

[Fullsac Performance]

Hi Mike

Welcome to the CVO forum.

You have come to the right place for no BS info from a small group of those in the know.

Here's what I know.
Sequence is critical. You need good parts, then a good tune, in that order. Changing the mufflers after the final tune takes you back to Go. My suggestion. If you still have your stock CVO mufflers, for a little more than a hundred bucks you can put 1.75 cores in those. This will reduce your sound level and make the best power from your TD headpipes. Sell the Monsters on Ebay and use the rest of the money for dyno time. If your dealer is not a competent tuning center, you will have to search one out. It may be possible to make an appointment with one in Daytona.

Any one have a recommendation for this man?   

SG

[lcloud]

Valley Racing is in Beecher Ill. Brian knows how to tune a bike very well!

[Unbalanced]

True, the Monster rounds are not quite as open as the Hi outputs, but still a complete retune away from the stock CVO mufflers. As the OP has confirmed, and as I suspected, the installer "set the bike up" for the TDs.       Yes indeed, the dreaded dealer Diltune. 

CVOOOH, to optimize what you have it will require dyno time or a fuel map from an identical bike with the identical parts. Bikes can be different colors, red is not faster. To get the best performance out of True Duals headpipes ,mufflers need to have an inner core no larger than 1.75. Again, we are talking about getting the best performance. If you were happy with the performance before, maybe the "quicktune" and the parts you have will keep the smile on your face? Maybe try it with "no tune"? I see guys riding the worst running bikes ever with big smiles all the time. But if you want it right, proper tuning by a competent individual is money well spent.

SG

Steve you hit the nail on the head and are 100% correct red is not faster, Orange is             

I agree with Steve on the tuning part.   You are coming to a typically hot climate, doesn't always pan out that way,but if you were lean to begin with you will add a ton more heat being down here in Florida and possibly a lot of traffic with bike week.   My recommendation echo's Steve's and that is to get the bike properly and professionally tuned vs. a drop in map or a swag at throwing fuel at it.   In the end it will run better and be less problematic.

[grc]

I believe what that dealer was calling a "quick tune" is nothing more than a download of the map Harley makes available for intake and exhaust changes.  In other words, a canned map.  Harley does not offer canned maps for exhaust systems other than their own, and they don't offer a system comparable to the V&H units.  That hasn't stopped a lot of dealers from doing one of those canned map downloads and telling the customer they "tuned" the bike.  Some even provide a dyno chart to make it appear they did a full tune.

Buyer Beware is always a good idea.  Find a good full time professional tuner.  As for the BS about red not being faster, don't forget that you can't believe everything you read on the internet either.

Jerry

[HOGMIKE]

I believe what that dealer was calling a "quick tune" is nothing more than a download of the map Harley makes available for intake and exhaust changes.  In other words, a canned map.  Harley does not offer canned maps for exhaust systems other than their own, and they don't offer a system comparable to the V&H units.  That hasn't stopped a lot of dealers from doing one of those canned map downloads and telling the customer they "tuned" the bike.  Some even provide a dyno chart to make it appear they did a full tune.

Buyer Beware is always a good idea.  Find a good full time professional tuner.  As for the BS about red not being faster, don't forget that you can't believe everything you read on the internet either.

Jerry

Red IS faster......at least on MY bikes!!
My 2010 103 red is faster than my 2014 gray. (See gps pic)
I've had my bikes dyno'd by the same guy and been completely satisfied with power, sound, performance, gas mileage etc. My '14 is up for the 50K service this week and I've had the same map since I bought the bike (TTS)
There was a minor "update" about 6 months in, but the map is basically the same since Sept of 2013.
IMHO, get a pro tune and you'll be happy.

Thanks, Steve, I'll be in your neighborhood later this month.
 

[Fullsac Performance]

Red IS faster......at least on MY bikes!!
My 2010 103 red is faster than my 2014 gray. (See gps pic)
I've had my bikes dyno'd by the same guy and been completely satisfied with power, sound, performance, gas mileage etc. My '14 is up for the 50K service this week and I've had the same map since I bought the bike (TTS)
There was a minor "update" about 6 months in, but the map is basically the same since Sept of 2013.
IMHO, get a pro tune and you'll be happy.

Thanks, Steve, I'll be in your neighborhood later this month.
 

My Black one is faster than your red and Grey One! Needless to say it wasn't Diltuned.

I'll buy the first beer my friend.   

SG

[CVOHHHH]

WOW!  What a great response.  I love this forum.  Thanks for all of your help.  Steve, unfortunately I sold the SE stock mufflers on ebay so I am married to the monster rounds for now...I don't know if they are the right internal diameter (1.75) or not.  Also, thanks to the guy who suggested Beecher Illinois for a tune, but that's more than 125 miles each way.  I either need to find someone near Rockford Illinois ( about 60 miles northwest of Chicago), or maybe even wait until I get to Daytona and have it tuned there.  If I understand everyone correctly, I am running very lean right now and also very hot and I could damage my bike unless I get a proper full-blown dyno.  I wish I could find a dealer near me that I could trust, but I'm sure they are all about the same.  I am very glad to know that the "quick Tune" is a canned program and not equipment specific.  Also, the dealer told me he has to wait until a warm day (at least 50 degrees) before he can do the quick tune because they pump outside air into the room where it's done and cold air will make the procedure skewed (a moot point now since I'm not getting it done anyway)...anyone know if that's true?  Also wondering if I do wait until I get to Daytona for a dyno, can I trust Rossmeyers to do it correctly or should I seek out someone else.  I know this has turned into the thread from hell, but I just want my bike to run with the best performance with the exhaust I have already, and so I'm turning to the experts for advice.

[hawgzilla]

It would be time and money well spent to take the short trip to Valley in Beecher. 

[CVOHHHH]

Hawgzilla, thanks for your response.  I would really like to see Brian at valley racing, but logistically it seems like it wouldn't work.  2 1/2 hours each way pulling a trailer, plus connecting the trailer, loading, and then unloading, parking and disconnecting the trailer adds up to nearly a full work day for me, and when I figure I have to make 2 trips there to deliver and pick up, that's a lot of time.  I own my own business and if I'm not working, I don't get paid, so money not earned would have to be added to the cost of the dyno.  Do you have contact information for Brian?  I thought maybe if he could do it while I waited it might be worth the added expense since I'd only be making one trip.  Also, does the person doing the dyno actually have to have a warm day to do it correctly?  If that's the case, then wouldn't I be better off doing it in a warm climate like Daytona?  Clearly I don't know anything about this and I just need some help trying to get it done correctly.