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[ultrafxr]

Kaz,

I will share my numbers with you.  First let me tell you that I own an insurance agency, so I know a little about this subject.  My numbers can be a guide - but the fact of the matter is these days there are so many different variables that go into rating on bikes and cars that it virtually impossible to know whether you or someone you are comparing to is getting a good deal or not without shopping around a little. 

Those variables include state, county, city, driving record, claims, credit score, sex, age, experience, how many vehicles you have, if you own or rent your home, whether you had prior insurance or not, what your liability limits were previously, if you have a loan on the vehicle, how far in advance of the renewal date you are asking for a quote and a lot more.  Another factor, as you will see in my breakdown is what coverage limits you buy.  As you see below, some coverages are a lot more expensive than others and can make a big difference in the total.

I did not shop all of the companies in the market for my coverage.  I did it in my independent insurance agency (of course) and only looked at the 2 companies we use who want to write bikes, Safeco and Progressive.  Progressive is one of the largest writers of motorcycle insurance and that is who I use and their rates for my bikes are shown below.

I have 3 bikes, under each I have given a breakdown of the coverage and costs:

Being an insurance person I believe in having high liability limits and high deductibles.  I will not be turning in any small claims anyway so I take advantage of the discount for a larger deductible, as should you.

My coverage is:

$500,000 Combined Single Limit (CSL) for liability
$2,000 Medical Expense (probably not needed, but I have it anyway.
$500,000 CSL Uninsured/Underinsured Motorists liability (the MOST important coverage here)
$500 Deductible Comprehensive
$1,000 Deductible Collision
$450 Towing

These are annual premiums:

2007 SERK total is $694

Liability $200
Medical Expense $70
Uninsured/Underinsured Motorist $181
Comprehensive $71
Collision $171
Towing $1

2005 Deuce total is $527

Liability $184
Medical Expense $56
Uninsured/Underinsured Motorist $138
Comprehensive $45
Collision $103
Towing $1

2005 Road King Classic total is $527

Liability $184
Medical Expense $56
Uninsured/Underinsured Motorist $138
Comprehensive $45
Collision $103
Towing $1

Total for 3 bikes annually $1,748.

A little more background.  I live in Fairfax County, just outside of Washington DC.  While the rates here in my area are higher than in most of VA, VA has some of the lowest auto insurance rates in the nation.  I have a clean driving record, except for one at-fault fender bender 2 years ago, (no ticket luckily).  I am 46, married, own my home and have excellent credit.  And unfortunately NO, I don't get a discount of any kind...

I know this is probably a LOT more information than you were looking for.  I hope it helps.  Feel free to let me know if you have any questions.

Doug

Wonder if you could elaborate on why you consider the underinsued/uninsured motorist coverage the MOST important?  Thanks

[VAZHOG]

Vaz,

Glanced at the site and didn't easily find what you were referencing.  Will probably be next week before I can dig through it.  If you can point me to a more specific link I will try to take a look sooner.  Also keep in mind that what a trial attorney was succesful in accomplishing in one case will not automatically apply in every instance. 

If you have to go to court to win, you have already lost.....
Having an Umbrella policy gives you the liability coverage - period.

Will post again after I find your reference.

Take care,

A better link http://www.motorcyclevirginia.com/2004/2004_frames.html

And  a  Example --The Insurance Co’s don’t want the avg pay as you guy to know about this. Because most are looking for the lowest rate (cheapest) which is less coverage. They the insurance Co allows the uninsured motorist (Pedro) And In Fairfax County that is one in three drivers riding right next to YOU. In his leased (or borrowed Caddy & Drunk and Suspended drivers license. Runs YOU over and you can only collect the 25,000 uninsured motorist fee, YOU cannot get a Band-Aid in the ER for that.

So for less the 1% of my gross income I can recover from that loss up to 3 million if needed (includes my 1 million umbrella).

Some May Call Mr. McGrath an Ambulance chaser (Personal Injury Lawyer) but if it’s you in the Ambulance you may be glad they are out there.

[BlueFlames]

Ultrafxr,'=

I wondered if someone would ask that question.

That's the one that protects YOU.  If you get hit by an uninsured or underinsured driver (one with insurance limits lower than yours), that coverage steps in and acts like it is their insurance.  It protects you up to the limit you have purchased, not your limit in addition to theirs.  You basically end up suing yourself and it will cover.  It provides no protection to the other party.  Sucks that you have to have it, but with all the idiots, illegals, etc. on the road you want to make sure you take care of yourself first.  In my opinion you always want to buy the highest limit that you can buy, on your bike AND your cars.  

If you can get it added to your Umbrella policy do that too.  Most companies won't cover it on the umbrella, but a few do and some states require them to offer it.  Not in VA though.

Hope that explains it.  If I wasn't clear shoot me another message.

Doug

[BlueFlames]

Vaz,

I will take a look.  It looks like you are referring to uninsured motorist coverage which is different than your liability coverage, which is what protects you if someone sues the $hit out of you, as you mentioned originally.  As I said in my original post and to Ultrafxr, I feel that uninsured motorist coverage is the MOST important coverage to have.  You may be able to stack uninsured motorist (UM) coverage from auto and cycle, although the contracts say otherwise.  It is definitely not included on your homeowners policy. 

If you are referring to UM on an umbrella, thats not "stacking".  Also I would read your umbrella policy very carefully to make sure it is really included there.  Most companies in Virginia no longer offer UM on the umbrella, although there are a (very) few that do.  If  you do have it covered specifically on your Umbrella policy, and your bike policy is scheduled on there as well, you are correct to buy the most coverage they will offer you.  That is exactly what I would do and what I would reccomend.

[ultrafxr]

I wondered if someone would ask that question.

That's the one that protects YOU.  If you get hit by an uninsured or underinsured driver (one with insurance limits lower than yours), that coverage steps in and acts like it is their insurance.  It protects you up to the limit you have purchased, not your limit in addition to theirs.  You basically end up suing yourself and it will cover.  It provides no protection to the other party.  Sucks that you have to have it, but with all the idiots, illegals, etc. on the road you want to make sure you take care of yourself first.  In my opinion you always want to buy the highest limit that you can buy, on your bike AND your cars.  

If you can get it added to your Umbrella policy do that too.  Most companies won't cover it on the umbrella, but a few do and some states require them to offer it.  Not in VA though.

Hope that explains it.  If I wasn't clear shoot me another message.

Doug

I understand completely but wanted to get your take.

What is at stake with UM coverage it seems to me is two things:  loss of income and pain and suffering.  If you have good medical coverage (which does not exlcude motorcycle crash related injuries) then it would pay.  If you received payment from the other party (or your UM on behalf of the other party) then your medical coverage will subrogate to get back their expenditures anyway.  Your collision coverage will pay for damage to your bike and contents up to its limits.  If you make a claim under collision (even if an uninsured motorist is at fault) then it counts as a charageable accident to you. 

So your medical and property are covered leaving you on the hook for lost wages and pain and suffering (if you can get that, lol) and a chargeable accident for the property damage.  Not saying this is small potatoes but the premium for UM is pretty high imo.  Looks like a good profit center for the insurance companies.

[BlueFlames]

Ultra,  Sounds like you know your insurance.  You are basically correct.  If you have good medical insurance you do not have as much need for that part.  Although even good policies require some payment on your part for care, have sublimits and/or exclusions for certain therapies, artificial limbs, convalescent care, nursing homes, long-term care, etc.  If you were to become completely disabled, in addition to lost wages, rehab, etc., etc. you would very likely eventually lose your medical coverage after exhausting COBRA so you would have some financial risk there. 

Even if you have disability coverage it usually only pays 60% of your past earnings and in most cases that is taxable.  Over years that difference can add up. 

Hopefully none of us will need it.  You are correct it is expensive on bike policies.  For most of us, if we get creamed by an uninsured driver or someone with minimum state coverage, it could make the difference between making it financially or not. 

If you have great coverage elsewhere to cover those risks, you can elect to buy a lower limit (can't waive completely in VA) and save the $.  In our practice we never reccomend that, would try very hard to talk someone out of it and then would require a signed waiver if a client wants to do that.  It's not for the commission dollars I assure you.  It is because we believe it is that important.

[ultrafxr]

Ultra,  Sounds like you know your insurance.  You are basically correct.  If you have good medical insurance you do not have as much need for that part.  Although even good policies require some payment on your part for care, have sublimits and/or exclusions for certain therapies, artificial limbs, convalescent care, nursing homes, long-term care, etc.  If you were to become completely disabled, in addition to lost wages, rehab, etc., etc. you would very likely eventually lose your medical coverage after exhausting COBRA so you would have some financial risk there. 

Even if you have disability coverage it usually only pays 60% of your past earnings and in most cases that is taxable.  Over years that difference can add up. 

Hopefully none of us will need it.  You are correct it is expensive on bike policies.  For most of us, if we get creamed by an uninsured driver or someone with minimum state coverage, it could make the difference between making it financially or not. 

If you have great coverage elsewhere to cover those risks, you can elect to buy a lower limit (can't waive completely in VA) and save the $.  In our practice we never reccomend that, would try very hard to talk someone out of it and then would require a signed waiver if a client wants to do that.  It's not for the commission dollars I assure you.  It is because we believe it is that important.

Blue, when I spoke about the cost I was not referring to the commission agents might earn (and yes we do earn it).  I'm a financial investment advisor, mainly managed accounts, but do a fair amount of life, disability and health insurance - no p&c.  I'm protecting my assets and carry a very high limit umbrella on all my vehicles (which includes my scoot).  I have elected to go bare without UM coverage on any of my vehicles for the significant cost savings.  It all adds up and I'd rather put the $ toward the liability in case I were to get sued.  Here in TN like many states we have a plethora of uninsured motorists.  And yes, I did have to sign a waiver to decline the UM coverage.  Hope I'm not being "pound wise and penny foolish" but that is what I have decided.

Amazing that many insurance professionals do not know that your own collision will pay no matter who is at fault and whether or not they have insurance.  Had several agents tell me that if uninsured motorist damaged my vehicle(s) then I had no coverage even though I had collision.  Makes you wonder doesn't it?

[BlueFlames]

Ultra,

I knew that wasn't aimed at me!!  I can't speak for the companies though - just for myself. 

You are brave, I have to give you that!  I hope self insuring the UM works out for you.  You are correct about people giving out bad advice.  UM and A lot of other things.  We see it all the time.  If you look at my second cost breakdown the UMPD premium is only $4 compared to $100+ for the BI.  Obviously reflecting the minimal need for that part, due to the collision coverage and limited (relative to the $500K limit) value of the bikes.

The worst part in my opinion is that I am the only rider, so only one can be on the road at a time and I still have almost equal premiums for BI and UM, even with the multi-bike discount.  Need to sell the other two and get the premium down!!!!  At least until I find a replacement.

My company does all lines, but I spend most of my time doing employee benefits.

Nice to meet you,

Doug

[twojay]

Ultrafxr,'=

I wondered if someone would ask that question.

That's the one that protects YOU.  If you get hit by an uninsured or underinsured driver (one with insurance limits lower than yours), that coverage steps in and acts like it is their insurance.  It protects you up to the limit you have purchased, not your limit in addition to theirs.  You basically end up suing yourself and it will cover.  It provides no protection to the other party.  Sucks that you have to have it, but with all the idiots, illegals, etc. on the road you want to make sure you take care of yourself first.  In my opinion you always want to buy the highest limit that you can buy, on your bike AND your cars.  

If you can get it added to your Umbrella policy do that too.  Most companies won't cover it on the umbrella, but a few do and some states require them to offer it.  Not in VA though.

Hope that explains it.  If I wasn't clear shoot me another message.

Doug
[/quote
For the most part insurance laws are determined by the various statea with those laws being trumped by the federal ones, ie medicare, erisa etc. In a lot of states the um protection that you purchase is paid in addition to the limits of the tortfeasor's policy not as you have stated above.  I assume you meant to limit your discussion to the laws of your state but I thought your comment needed clarification, with no disrespect intended on my part. However everyone should be aware that what you have stated may not be applicable to them.

[twojay]

I understand completely but wanted to get your take.

What is at stake with UM coverage it seems to me is two things:  loss of income and pain and suffering.  If you have good medical coverage (which does not exlcude motorcycle crash related injuries) then it would pay.  If you received payment from the other party (or your UM on behalf of the other party) then your medical coverage will subrogate to get back their expenditures anyway.  Your collision coverage will pay for damage to your bike and contents up to its limits.  If you make a claim under collision (even if an uninsured motorist is at fault) then it counts as a charageable accident to you. 

So your medical and property are covered leaving you on the hook for lost wages and pain and suffering (if you can get that, lol) and a chargeable accident for the property damage.  Not saying this is small potatoes but the premium for UM is pretty high imo.  Looks like a good profit center for the insurance companies.

Most of the time your health insurer will have a contract with the medical provider where they receive substantial discounts. In that case your um insurer may be required to pay you the normal charge (medical expenses)  and you only have to reimburse your health insurer for the discounted amount. It is not unusual for a health insurer's contract with the medical provider to allow discounts in excess of 50%. Accordingly this could  amount to significant funds for you to use to cover your deductible, your  co pay expenses and the expenses you incurred that were not covered under your health policy. As I posted a few moments ago insurance laws vary by state. In some states if your own auto policy pays and you were not at fault they (insurance cos)  are not allowed to use the no fault accident when determining your premiums (thus it is not a chargable accident). Also we need to remember that your collision coverage has a deductible thus you will not be reimbursed for the total amount of your damages whereas there is no deductible when your um coverage is brought into play.   Just something else to consider.

[VAZHOG]

Vaz,

I will take a look.  It looks like you are referring to uninsured motorist coverage which is different than your liability coverage, which is what protects you if someone sues the $hit out of you, as you mentioned originally.  As I said in my original post and to Ultrafxr, I feel that uninsured motorist coverage is the MOST important coverage to have.  You may be able to stack uninsured motorist (UM) coverage from auto and cycle, although the contracts say otherwise.  It is definitely not included on your homeowners policy. 

If you are referring to UM on an umbrella, thats not "stacking".  Also I would read your umbrella policy very carefully to make sure it is really included there.  Most companies in Virginia no longer offer UM on the umbrella, although there are a (very) few that do.  If  you do have it covered specifically on your Umbrella policy, and your bike policy is scheduled on there as well, you are correct to buy the most coverage they will offer you.  That is exactly what I would do and what I would reccomend.

That is only one example (uninsured) It apply's also to the under insured - also -- The money has to come from somewhere doesn't it .

That's why the insurance co Give the discount once you reach your insurance limit-- That's all you get then comes your assests (like your Home that you would need to sell to cover any rehab.

I would encourage everyone to review there current status. As the local taxes increase and fuel prices increase more and people let the insurance lap (can't afford it) and they are in the lane right next to you. (not seeing you on two wheels or your caddy)

 

[ultrafxr]

Good discussion and good points all.  It boils down to how much risk one is willing to assume and how much to lay off on the insurance company and how much they are willing to pay to have insurance company shoulder that risk.  Each person will most likely have a different answer depending on their individual situation/circumstances.  Bottom line is be aware of your downside if something were to happen and make sure you are willing and able to handle it.  If not get insurance to cover it.

[bikerdude]

I live in central Florida and I am with Progressive. My 07 SE/ Ultra is 459.00 a year. I have 4 Bikes with them.

[kazumdgc]

I want to thank everyone for their input. It looks like we all have different approaches to how we protect our loved ones, our bikes and people we may cause injuries to. I know there are some very bright insurance people who have shared their thoughts and wonder if we can come up with a best practice idea.

I know in my crash we were about to hit my own insurance for underinsured moterest when low and behold they came up with a 1MM UM policy. Now the attorney's are earning their $$. We should have a idea what is best for us and then make our decisions based on the info we learn from each other. This is an area that is critical to address now rather than after the fact.
Thanks again
Dave