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Author Topic: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...  (Read 2710 times)

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Twolanerider

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2018, 11:23:22 PM »

Doing a quick glance with the image unexploded one might not appreciate how much material is gouged from that skirt.  That is a very nasty looking piston though.
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Mr. Warlock

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #61 on: July 07, 2018, 06:50:57 AM »

Unless there is more / different damage on the other side of that piston this had absolutely nothing to do with the rings not seating. If they actually think that was caused by the rings not seating they have no clue what-so ever.
That, IMO was cause by to much heat under the piston causing it to expand and "cold seize" (so to speak) to the cylinder. Without having it in my hands to look at more closely I would consider there was so much oil in the crank case from sumping that excessive pressure and heat caused the piston skirts to expand putting pressure on the cylinder walls.
The only other thing that would make any sense at all is if the piston to cylinder clearance was too small or if the cylinder was out of round to the point of causing too small of a clearance.
There would have been much more damage to that piston if no oil or poor oiling. I would also be checking for crank venting.

If the piston got hot enough to expand to that degree I would be very concerned about the crank bearings.
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SHRADER

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #62 on: July 07, 2018, 07:50:15 AM »

Simon

This whole situation sucks beyond belief.

The one thing I see that to me is very curious is that the damaged area of the piston is offset toward the top wristpin, referencing the top of the picture, and not in the center between the two wrist pins. It could be that the piston or cylinder was a bit weaker in that area and it could be that that rod is twisted a bit.

Whatever caused this, and I tend to agree with Warlock about sumping being the root cause, they should absolutely go deeper and check/replaced the crank assembly because it was almost certainly damaged by the heat and metal missing from this piston....
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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #63 on: July 07, 2018, 09:28:16 AM »

If I remember correctly they found extensive damage in the cam chest first, now severe damage to the pistons and cylinders.  Have they bothered to look at the heads,rockers, and valves?  I'm wondering if the entire engine either suffered a lubrication failure, or large amounts of trash circulated throughout the engine.  And the bottom end needs to be inspected as well, since all that metal from the pistons and jugs went straight down into the crank. 

JMHO - Jerry

Jerry:
It seems to me after all of these motor failures that Harley would stop the dismantling and rebuild process in the dealerships and just exchange/replace every one of these motors that meet the sump failure criteria.  They would save a lot of money in charge backs, parts and labor.

The value add is that the customer would be back on the road a lot quicker with a new(er) Harley Factory motor with the latest thinking in correcting this long standing issue.

Do you have a sense that we may have started seeing the latest new replacement motors and new
bikes coming out without the problem i/e new bikes and motors manufactured after the May 2018 time frame?  Hopefully so.

Perhaps a member feedback thread would be in order.

Best regards

Jerry

 

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85FXRS

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #64 on: July 09, 2018, 03:03:19 PM »

well just maybe you will get lucky and get a 19 motor if yours is trashed..  i looked a few minutes ago about and see someone got  19 for their bike as replacement motor.. hope his is doing great too. everyone deserves  good service whn you look at the prices paid for the  HD
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DesertHOG

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #65 on: July 13, 2018, 03:00:19 PM »

UPDATE

So they put the new 114" Stage III kit on the bike.
Still making strange noises.
Call HD Tech Services for help with diagnosis.
Diagnosis: Twisted/bent Crank, "We've seen it before." per HD Tech Services

Remedy: Brand new motor being shipping along with a new 114" Stage III kit.

Gah!!!!!!!!!!!! but I suppose that's about the best remedy possible.

Simon
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 03:26:59 PM by DesertHOG »
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Twolanerider

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #66 on: July 13, 2018, 04:45:32 PM »

So the diagnosis process goes like this:


Patient: Bloody toenail.

Dr. HD: (doesn't look up)  Hmmm, that tastes awful.  I have wiped it off, put on a bandage and now suggest you walk on it further and see how it does.


Patient returns:  Bloody toenail, also blood on toe is running down from shin.


Dr. HD:  Ah, yes, I see.  Well, they all do that when they're bleeding up there.  Clean entire leg from knee down, bandage on shin and back of leg) and, just to be careful, ace bandage on knee.  Walk on it carefully for 500 miles to break it in a little and see how it goes.



Patient returns:   Doc, there's still blood running down the leg.  Feeling weaker all the time now too.  Pants are soggy.  Also, there's this weird squirting thing going on.  I noticed it squirting on you a little last time too but figured you knew what you were doing.



Dr. HD:   Oh my, look at that.  There's a puncture in the case (of the leg) and you are definitely squirting blood out of that spot every time you have a heart RPM.  Don't worry too much.  We've got a new external leg kit on the way.  They all do that when they get a hole like that.   

Dr. HD keeps bike.  Ok, we have installed the complete external leg kit.  This wraps the area around the hole in your leg and we're sure there's nothing else going on inside.  Also no leg parts have come loose that might bother other parts of the system.  You are walking just fine.  And when you do feel like limping don't worry; they all do that.


Patient: ah, phuk



Ring, ring, ring:  Hello, this is Dr. HD's office.  Can I help you. 
Roadside Ambulance Assistance:   Hello Dr HD, this is Harold Oswalt Goswin (HOG, get it?) with Roadside, we've got your patient on the side of the road.  He stroked out and had a seizure.  I think it's time to call the factory.
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rayson56

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #67 on: July 13, 2018, 05:57:24 PM »

I laughed out loud at that one. Just hope that scenerio stays away from me. Good luck Simon and anyone else involed.
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DesertHOG

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #68 on: July 13, 2018, 07:01:30 PM »

HD Factory: That puncture in that leg is a birth defect. We’ll have the factory send out a new one with the same VIN.
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Twolanerider

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #69 on: July 13, 2018, 08:14:06 PM »

HD Factory: That puncture in that leg is a birth defect. We’ll have the factory send out a new one with the same VIN.


:huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:  :2vrolijk_21:

Excellent !


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Rooster

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #70 on: July 14, 2018, 12:08:50 AM »

Wow Simon, hope they get you fixed not repaired soon. M19 on the way hopefully. That would be the 19 like Heatwave got.
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DesertHOG

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #71 on: July 14, 2018, 12:25:20 AM »

Wow Simon, hope they get you fixed not repaired soon. M19 on the way hopefully. That would be the 19 like Heatwave got.

I don't know but it's a possibility I guess. Just hope they pick a good one off the line. Wonder how many new engines they've exchanged under warranty so far. If that original crank was bent out of the factory what kind of QC are they running?

DH
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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #72 on: July 14, 2018, 01:39:32 AM »

I don't know but it's a possibility I guess. Just hope they pick a good one off the line. Wonder how many new engines they've exchanged under warranty so far. If that original crank was bent out of the factory what kind of QC are they running?

DH
You cant get a 19 motor (no one can) but you can get the design that they will put in the 19 with engine numbers that will be from your 18. Each time they install a new motor they will give you same engine number (or bike would be illegal) with a letter designation showing 2nd iteration (or 3rd, 4th--). Kinda splitting hairs as long as they don't change any emissions on new design for 19 in  which case they can not release until cleared and published by US EPA.
In my "saga" I have been through with MOCO the rep told me they have come up with solution that will be standard on the 19 and they have been using around the world without problems. To be fair though he told me that also when they sent my 3rd motor out to machine shop so hopefully this time he is right. It does seem like the people that have been posting recently problems don't seem to be re posting new motors are failing.
Please keep us informed when you get your bike back your progress with how it goes!
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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #73 on: July 14, 2018, 06:54:01 AM »

UPDATE

So they put the new 114" Stage III kit on the bike.
Still making strange noises.
Call HD Tech Services for help with diagnosis.
Diagnosis: Twisted/bent Crank, "We've seen it before." per HD Tech Services

Remedy: Brand new motor being shipping along with a new 114" Stage III kit.

Gah!!!!!!!!!!!! but I suppose that's about the best remedy possible.

Simon




Ahem

Who was it said it was twisted? LOL

I hope they get the engine fixed and I hope that HD gets this whole M8 fiasco sorted out before it literally drives them into bankruptcy.

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #74 on: July 14, 2018, 08:13:02 AM »

You cant get a 19 motor (no one can) but you can get the design that they will put in the 19 with engine numbers that will be from your 18. Each time they install a new motor they will give you same engine number (or bike would be illegal) with a letter designation showing 2nd iteration (or 3rd, 4th--). Kinda splitting hairs as long as they don't change any emissions on new design for 19 in  which case they can not release until cleared and published by US EPA.
In my "saga" I have been through with MOCO the rep told me they have come up with solution that will be standard on the 19 and they have been using around the world without problems. To be fair though he told me that also when they sent my 3rd motor out to machine shop so hopefully this time he is right. It does seem like the people that have been posting recently problems don't seem to be re posting new motors are failing.
Please keep us informed when you get your bike back your progress with how it goes!
Yes, that is what I really meant.
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