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[Unbalanced]

Chip speaking of numbers I am wondering why your bike is 141/140 and other Jim's 120's that Tman is doing is 152/151 since were on the topic.  Don't misunderstand those are great numbers just wondering what was done differently on the other 120's and not to yours?   Are you just sandbagging for ole Hubbard and Otis?   


Speaking of which has anyone seen ole Hubbard left him several voice mails and haven't heard back from wondering if he is doing ok.

Chip (Hogasm) Brian wants to know whether or not you return phone calls to certain people like HIM.   laugh.

[Rhino]

Knowing AJ, he left it alone..  But just I case.... Harry, can I borrow Michelles bike for a bit?

Rhino(nowayajgonnatakemeonanykindaharleysincemineisstocktoo)

[SBB]

Chip speaking of numbers I am wondering why your bike is 141/140 and other Jim's 120's that Tman is doing is 152/151 since were on the topic.  Don't misunderstand those are great numbers just wondering what was done differently on the other 120's and not to yours?   Are you just sandbagging for ole Hubbard and Otis?   


Speaking of which has anyone seen ole Hubbard left him several voice mails and haven't heard back from wondering if he is doing ok.

Chip (Hogasm) Brian wants to know whether or not you return phone calls to certain people like HIM.   laugh.

Harry

Bout time I start thinking you do know as much as you profess to know and you have the experience in making horsepower that you write about on this site, I get shot down.

OK, to answer your questions,
And please call T man and ask him the same should you doubt my explanation.
(This is kinda strange, me and him were just talking about this yesterday)
And to further back up my below statement also call Zippers and (or) call Brad at Freedom and ask them.

1)  You take a bike with a 140 rear tire that shows 150 RWHP on a dyno and change the tire to a 280, Bingo, new    readings on the dyno. Typically 6 to 8 less H/P. The wider the tire the lower the H/P reading.

2)  My 120 is a "B" motor. They typically make 4 to 6 ponies less than an "A" motor in an apples to apples comparison.

3)  Per my conversation with T man yesterday the 6 speed bikes show 3 to 5 H/P less than a 5 speed bike on a dyno.
Why? Hell if I know. Call and ask!

4)  As I said about a month ago there are 10 to 12 ponies available in my Frontier should I want to spend a grand to get there. The pipe on the bike is the stock Supertrapp. 5 or 6 ponies would magically appear if I put on a Boarzilla. The problem with that is that damn fat tire again. I would have to modify the Boarzilla by adding extensions to make it fit. Second loss of H/P potential is my stock H/D air breather. Now you know how easy it would be to add a "Big Sucker" breather. 3 or 4 ponies to be gained there. I just like the look of the stock breather. Plus it matches my horn on the other side.

So there you have it Harry.
Hope that explains why I'm at 140 and not 150.
I'm happy with the way it runs now.
I would much rather have a straight and true bike at 130 than the extra 10 to 12 ponies.
So that's where I'm concentrating on now.
So maybe one day, more ponies, but not today.

And to answer your question, I sandbag for no one.
My right wrist doesn't know how to do that.
Character fault I'm sure.

As far as Hubbbard, I talked with him the other day and he's real busy with work and racing.
We are planning on meeting at Myrtle Beach and air them out.
Whatever the outcome I'm sure one of us will be doing a few mods.
I just hope it's some new speakers for me.

And finally
Brian (Hogasm), he gave me his # and I have been to much of a slack a$$ to call him back.
Thanks Harry, I will call him tonight!

HEY!
I just noticed your signature about being the lead dog.
Come on down to Myrtle Beach and I'm sure someone will educate you on what a lead dog really is!
I find it hard to imagine you don't already know.

Take care!

S
  /
    B

 

[Unbalanced]

Actually Chip this was not a shoot you down or a pick on you post it was a legitimate question to understand why there was almost a 10 percent difference in the numbers of your bike vs. T-Man dyno sheets.  I know what it takes to get the numbers you have because I have also paid to have it done and in doing so I was trying to understand the difference in the possible packages done by T-Man your buddy.   I did not know there was a difference in the bikes he had done vs. your frontier.   They did not say one was a frontier 280 and one was a softtail chopper with a 330 tire or a 280 or a 200 or a softail 180 or heritage 200 so I figured it was close to apples to apples and the dyno sheets don't tell you this information so you ask seem reasonable?.   

In regards to the rear tire I would agree with you that it costs you a little bit on the dyno and the road, but it can also help you on the road to get tracking where others may spin a bit more so its a blessing and a curse depending on the application.   If you did go by way of the borezilla,  I think you would lose some low end grunt and pick up some top end pull in HP or a modified borezilla.  Numbers maybe negilible and the curve may change some due to the back pressure differences in your current pipe and the openness of the borezilla.   I have been told that the 6 speed also costs you some power over the 5 speed and I have heard from 3 to 6 percent on HD and from 6 to 15 percent on the Baker.   I have never tried to test this as the labor time to tear it down redo it remap it and redyno it 2 times just to try and get close is just not worth it to me.  I really don't know if you can even trust those estimates by the dyno guys or motor guys and it really wasn't sometihng I cared enough about to even investigate.     

Air Cleaner is a tough one because of the size of your throttlebody if you like the look why change unless you get beat and feel the need to make some more changes to help improve air flow / volume. btw  Did you know HP Inc just released 2 new throttle bodies and they discontinued the 53 and 56mm's.   55 and 58 are now available and they also released a 62mm.   so they offer now 49,51,55,58,62 in 3 finishes.

Anyhow all things even being close to even racing a Softail against a bagger is tough since your bike is  220 lbs lighter per the Frontier spec sheet over an FLHT add to that the size of the man.   So out of the box ole hubbard is giving up a lot to go play with you in excess of maybe 250 to 320 lbs of weight.  Now that your married I cant say as you havent become a little content and well maybe you put on a couple of those content pounds.   I don't think its going to take rocket science for this HBRR run, but ya never know and that is half the fun in it i guess.   So if I use your example of for every 6 pounds = 1 hp then hubbard is most likely giving up 40 to 53 hp.   Thats gonna be hard to make up.   I have always used 8 to 1, but even still that is 30 to 40 hp.   Means someone going to have put out about 160 to 170 to keep up with you.

My only worry in all this is whether you have resolved the wobble at High rate of speed.   From hearing about it from first hand observers at  the last GTG.   I actually think that is your limiting factor in this whole event.

I won't be able to make MB this upcoming weekend, but would like to.   I should be good to go after the first week in June.  I am supposed to be in Maggie Valley over July 4th week.  Maybe Hub and some of the guys on the site that are in the area will be able to break away for a day or 2.   

Looking forward to hearing about the air out and the how much its going to cost someone to do some modifications and sorry you saw this as a bust your chops.   

[SPIDERMAN]

Can I say this without hurting anyone's feelings ? 

If you beat me, your bike is faster

If I beat you, my bike is faster

Everything else is irrelevant Everything.
I don't hear John Force yakkin at Tony Pedregon about no damn dyno bullchit. They line em up, bust em down the track and that's that.  Now I'm not gonna beat any of you I'm sure;  so maybe my opinion doesn't count here but back in the day it was about who got from point A to point B first. Did I miss something ? Did someone change that basic rule of the street ?  If not, I sure wish you guys would set up a point A to point B situation, agree on best 2 out of 3 or whatever and be done with this.
 

B B

[HogBreath]

If it was all about who had the fastest bike, I wouldn't have bought a Harley to begin with.

That's all I've got to say about that.

[SPIDERMAN]

If it was all about who had the fastest bike, I wouldn't have bought a Harley to begin with.

That's all I've got to say about that.

So you're giving us your word you'll never post anything from this moment on regarding Harley-Davidson performance ?   

B B

[Unbalanced]

Spiderman your missing one big point.

I was asking about the differences in the motors to understand the number output differences.   that way when a race is over you have a way to look at what the limiting factors of one over the other are.   In this case its a twin cam B motor vs others on T-Mans site.   Or in this air out its a twin cam A in a bagger vs. a B motor in a softtail weighing a whole lot less with 15 more ponies it per the dyno.   So 138/125 vs.  141/140.   647 cam vs. 650 cam
930 pounds vs. 720 pounds.   Zippers 54mm throttle body  / HP Inc 5X throttlebody.   Its about learning combinations for me anyhow and then putting it to practical use.

Your right A-B points need to be set, but some want 1/4 mile some want roll on and some want WOT till your knuckles turn white.   Whatever floats your boat.   

[SPIDERMAN]

Harry & Chip
                 I met you both for the 1st time in MV last October. You were both my kind of people. Stright forward, some might even say blunt, straight up no BS kind of guys who loved motorcycles and the women in their life equally. I like both of you. Admire both of you for different reasons but equally. I read what each of you writes and pay attention to the details. In my mind both of you are H-D speed freaks. Why you both seem bent on windin each other up I have no idea, but me and Beags have done it many times, so maybe it's just the men are dogs thing. Anyway, here's how we settle it. We get going down the Scripps/Poway Parkway side by side in 5th gear going 80 mph. We look at each other, nod and twist. Who ever gets to the top of the hill (about 1,000 ft of elevation and a mile long) wins. The loser shuts his yap till he feels he's ready for another go. I would imagine you and Chip could agree on something similar. Like I said, John Force don't go around yappin about dyno bullchit

B B

[HogBreath]

So you're giving us your word you'll never post anything from this moment on regarding Harley-Davidson performance ?   

B B

I'll start posting more off the wall irrelavant BS from now on. You got my word.

[SPIDERMAN]

I'll start posting more off the wall irreverant BS from now on. You got my word.

I'm gonna hold you to that !

B B

[HogBreath]

I'm gonna hold you to that !

B B

I never expected any different. My word is my bond. Besides, Can you show me a previous post I made about HD performance?

[SPIDERMAN]

I never expected any different. My word is my bond. Besides, Can you show me a previous post I made about HD performance?

Hey, is this the thread where everyone takes everyone else just a wee bit too serious. I'm trying to inject some levity into this thread. I thought you were helping.  By the way, read my quote compared to your post.   

B B

PS  I don't know what you've posted on , only that I enjoy your posts when I see them

[HogBreath]

Hey, is this the thread where everyone takes everyone else just a wee bit too serious. I'm trying to inject some levity into this thread. I thought you were helping.  By the way, read my quote compared to your post.   

B B

PS  I don't know what you've posted on , only that I enjoy your posts when I see them

I'm not serious at all. But, I've also read your posts, and I can sense the thought given to them. I figured you wrong. I thought you'd spend the next hour trying to find one of my performance posts, while I went for a ride. I thought I was helping too?

BTW, I read your quote compared to my post, and I dont get it.

[hard10]

Hey, is this the thread where everyone takes everyone else just a wee bit too serious. ...

Hey! What's this hijack BS.

I'm trying to figure out how to properly breakin my new motor cams Nitros cylinders.