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[Twolanerider]

I have one more piece of diagnostics to try that may at least narrow down the problem. As you can tell, I am sharing a lot of frustration, and can't get a grasp on it.

If I am correct, you had at one time mentioned that you added a power commander and a tune on this bike, and noted that it ran fine.

Well, is it possible the sensors are bad on the Autotune?   Before anything, I would try the following before tearing into it again.  Disable the sensors, and set the AFR's in override? for 12.5 or richer across the board and take it for a ride.  If i am not mistaken, disabling the closed loop from the module may do this, but I cant read enough to go over that detail.  Perhaps this process of elimination will help, and at least feed the motor the extra fuel. 

At least you could discover if the AFR metering side is actual hampering the flow inadvertantly.   A 02 sensor can go bad, or, it can get coated, and send erroneous signals to the TMAX. 


Rhino

Rhino, some of this may have already been covered.  Speaking only to my case I have a spare o2 sensor and have swapped it in and out of both holes.  Never altered monitored data in the data stream at all.

The bike had a Power Commander on it a long time ago.  Well before any of this was going on.  No o2 sensors at that time either.  The bike is an 05 so the sensors were added with the TMax installation.

Another member had written in PM of a problem with his bike that only happened while his autotune module was enabled.  It would run progressively worse the longer he rode it. He could turn of the autotune function and the bike was better each time. 

That's a different problem than I was experiencing.  On mine smoother idle, easier starting and other subtle variations were gained with riding.  All indicative of the autotune functioning (it seemed to me).  But just this morning I did give that a try.  Ran it in 80 degree temps with the module disabled.  Still pinged.  At 80 degrees ambient it was always much lighter.  So it was light this morning.  But the ping at 80 degrees ambient temp with the new revised map was only slightly less than it was originally.  So disabling the autotune module didn't give us anything different either.

I did not, however, richen it up even more as you'd suggested.  Was already more than a little surprised that this much pinging was still going on with the base 13:1 setting unaltered (with the exception of what the system itself might be doing).  13:1 isn't close to lean.  I'd hate to run it even richer.  Will certainly give it a try just for purposes of instruction.  To see if it makes any difference.  But can't see leaving it that way for the long term.

[FR8TRN]

The downside was that if I retarded timing enough to even get close to getting rid of the detonation the bike was neutered.  So detuned that if the options were leaving it that way or throwing away the Thundermax you'd have to throw away the Thundermax. 

Oh I know that feeling........but don't throw it away, find someone that has a setup closer to their basemap and sell it to em.......

[Twolanerider]

Jim....sincerely hope that the fix is a simple one for your problem.  Seems that the dealer there could at least eliminate the things that would obviously not let the cylinder fire, even if they can't do anything with the Tmax.  At least you'd be at a point of knowing whether the problem is in fact the ECM, then take whatever steps needed to get the bike on the road again for the rest of your trip.  I know this is a nighmarish experience for you, and I hate that you are going through this on your Holiday...

That could be a nightmare scenario if the tech department is either a bit lazy or a bit behind the technology curve TC.  Without the cable you can't read codes from the module.  Even with the cable you can't read the module without the software.  I've got the cable and the software on a flash stick in a zip lock in one of the saddlebag lid pouches.

Even with that, however, I could completely understand some service department denying to load my software on their PC to read the system.  It would not be an unreasonable denial.  That's why I also kept the stock ECM stored in the bottom of the saddlebag.  To make the swap back if necessary.

So many techs anymore are trained to only follow the codes.  Without the data report they really just don't have a clue what to do.  And will then look for excuses not to do anything.  Depending on the initiative of the service staff the circumstance Jim is in right now could be a very ugly one.

[Twolanerider]

Oh I know that feeling........but don't throw it away, find someone that has a setup closer to their basemap and sell it to em.......

 

Fr8, I just had a moment of clarity .  I'm hauling extra data cables, software, ECMs and tools for a "what if" scenario.  Fighting a problem that doesn't seem to be going away.  Giving it a real and legitimate effort.  Hoping that someday I'm never where Jim is right now.  Still without an effective resolution from the company.  Not riding the bike as much the last few weeks as a result of it all.  And not enjoying the experience one bit.

Good lord, talk about landing fixation.....

It could be time to abort this approach and find a different runway.

[ultrafxr]

Well, the plot thickens.  This morning I went out to start my bike, and it will not fire on the rear cylinder at all. It has fuel, it has a spark, swapped the plugs, but nothing.

Got it hauled to the dealer tech area at the rally by a breakdown truck, their first reaction?  Non standard ECM so your warranty is void.....

So, here I am 2500 miles from home, I don't speak the language, no bike, and no vacation....  If I discover that this is a problem with the TMAT, I'm going to be a little annoyed.

Ron, do you know any circumstances under which the TMAT will "turn off" the rear cylinder on a bike when it's stone cold?

Jim

Good grief.  I sure feel for you Jim.  That nightmare scenario is exactly what kept me from taking the plunge with the TMAT even before all this started about the pinging.  Sure hope you get that sucker running well enough to get you through your trip.  Best of luck.

[Twolanerider]

Good grief.  I sure feel for you Jim.  That nightmare scenario is exactly what kept me from taking the plunge with the TMAT even before all this started about the pinging.  Sure hope you get that sucker running well enough to get you through your trip.  Best of luck.

You're a smart man Jerry.  Clarity and several morning beverages (it's going to be a GOOD FRIDAY) have me envying you right now.  But the fog has cleared.  I'm off instruments and have realized that flying under the hood isn't fun when all you want is clear air and VFR.  Simple is its own reward sir.  And no one has ever said I'm not simple .  I think it's time to change runways and take the easy approach.  It's not as if we didn't try hard to crater her in.

[Midnight Rider]

That could be a nightmare scenario if the tech department is either a bit lazy or a bit behind the technology curve TC.  Without the cable you can't read codes from the module.  Even with the cable you can't read the module without the software.  I've got the cable and the software on a flash stick in a zip lock in one of the saddlebag lid pouches.

Even with that, however, I could completely understand some service department denying to load my software on their PC to read the system.  It would not be an unreasonable denial.  That's why I also kept the stock ECM stored in the bottom of the saddlebag.  To make the swap back if necessary.

So many techs anymore are trained to only follow the codes.  Without the data report they really just don't have a clue what to do.  And will then look for excuses not to do anything.  Depending on the initiative of the service staff the circumstance Jim is in right now could be a very ugly one.

Know what you're saying, Don...if the computer doesn't tell them things to check, they're often as lost as a fart in a whirlwind...

But if they could verify fire to the chamber, and if needed ensure the FI is spraying fuel in there, at least it would be a start.  God forbid any mechanical bits are laying around in places they don't need to be...



The thing now is that the pucker factor on the road has just gone up exponentially, even if there is some resolution to the particular problem at hand.  

[Twolanerider]

Know what you're saying, Don...if the computer doesn't tell them things to check, they're often as lost as a fart in a whirlwind...

But if they could verify fire to the chamber, and if needed ensure the FI is spraying fuel in there, at least it would be a start.  God forbid any mechanical bits are laying around in places they don't need to be...



The thing now is that the pucker factor on the road has just gone up exponentially, even if there is some resolution to the particular problem at hand.  

TC, too many kids in the dealerships don't know how to check spark with their tongue if it didn't tell them how to do it with a code reader.  They're trained to only do what's directed.  And they're more scared of doing it wrong then trying something new.  There is no trial and error resolution when trial is afraid of error (or just doesn't have the initiative to push his hairy ass out of the way).

[SBB]

Don

I have a suggestion.
Check your mail.
The answer could be in the box.



or that brown truck pullin up in your driveway!

[Midnight Rider]

Know what you mean, Jerry.  It was on the top of my list of things to accumulate for next year's project...in fact, the only reason I don't have it already is that I had just got a decent tune on the PCIII back last November, and I also didn't feel like pulling the pipes off to have the bungs welded in for the sensors.  Me thinks I'll stick with the PCIII and keep a copy of the MAP on a CD in my owners manual in the TP.  At least if the PCIII takes a crap, I can limp in on my ECM flash for the SE pipes I had on prior to delivery, get another one, load the MAP, and be back on the road in an hours time, if I can get my hands on a computer.

[FR8TRN]

It could be time to abort this approach and find a different runway.

Well glad I could be of some assistance, you'd be surprised how quickly that stuff can come off the bike.  Then go riding, sounds like you've got some frustration to get rid of.....I know I certainly feel much better now that mines gone........endless nights in the geerage, making changes to maps hoping it'll all go away........

[ultrafxr]

Well glad I could be of some assistance, you'd be surprised how quickly that stuff can come off the bike.  Then go riding, sounds like you've got some frustration to get rid of.....I know I certainly feel much better now that mines gone........endless nights in the geerage, making changes to maps hoping it'll all go away........

Yup, I'll bet he does.  We chastise the moco for "field testing" their products but this is ridiculous!
 

[grc]

Well, the plot thickens.  This morning I went out to start my bike, and it will not fire on the rear cylinder at all. It has fuel, it has a spark, swapped the plugs, but nothing.
Got it hauled to the dealer tech area at the rally by a breakdown truck, their first reaction?  Non standard ECM so your warranty is void.....

So, here I am 2500 miles from home, I don't speak the language, no bike, and no vacation....  If I discover that this is a problem with the TMAT, I'm going to be a little annoyed.

Ron, do you know any circumstances under which the TMAT will "turn off" the rear cylinder on a bike when it's stone cold?

Jim

Jim,

Hate to even suggest this, but if you have fuel and spark you need to check compression.  If the bike is running as hot as you indicate and detonating severely, you may have burned a valve or piston.  I hope I'm wrong and it turns out to be something simple.

Jerry

[Twolanerider]

Don

I have a suggestion.
Check your mail.
The answer could be in the box.



or that brown truck pullin up in your driveway!

Big brown truck paid me a visitation last night Chip.  Didn't see the package until a couple hours ago.  But, it's heeeere  .

Thanks again.  Very much appreciated.  A pair of o2 bung plugs arrived in the mail today also that I'd ordered to have just-in-case.  With the Nelson trip's departure deadline looming I don't have the option of two and three day cycles of several different suggestions.  Pretty well have to hop one way or the other right away.

[Twolanerider]

Jim,

Hate to even suggest this, but if you have fuel and spark you need to check compression.  If the bike is running as hot as you indicate and detonating severely, you may have burned a valve or piston.  I hope I'm wrong and it turns out to be something simple.

Jerry

Had the same fear Jerry.  Was crossing fingers, toes and other bendable bits of anatomy that the bike firing on both cylinders when he shut off last night and then suddenly losing a cylinder on startup this morning might indicate something other.  But it certainly can't be dismissed.  It's well in to the evening for him now so hopefully he'll have posted good news by our AM.  Just hate to see him having to deal with all so far from home though.