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[SixGun]

I don't know about you all, but I've had it with these dealers.  I have bought my last bike from MOCO at MSRP.  I will buy used until the dealers start bringing the prices down.

Anything over invoice does nothing to the financial stability of MOCO...it's just filling the pockets of all these "out of control" franchises.

Before you say it; you're right, I have a choice and don't have to buy one if I don't want too.

I also understand economics so I don't need a lecture on that either.

I was there for Harley in 1980 and this is how I'm rewarded for my loyalty.

Just wanted to vent...am I alone here?

[VAZHOG]

 

[RedDevil]

  Six, it makes no difference how long you've been a loyal rider of HD.  The MoCo doesn't personally sell you a motorcycle.  They get a set price for the bikes and that's where their profit margin comes from.  As long as you have dealerships like "Fat Ba$tard" in Daytona and the people that are willing to pay his inflated prices, there will be no reason for them to offer below MSRP.  You can get plenty of 07's at less than MSRP right now, due to over production.
Cheers ,
 

[CVOJOE]

  The MoCo doesn't personally sell you a motorcycle.  They get a set price for the bikes and that's where their profit margin comes from. 

Actually, the dealership sells you the motorcycle and sets the price, above or below MSRP. They buy the inventory from the MOCO, and the MOCO cannot set the sale price themselves, only 'suggest it', AKA MSRP. There's a little Sherman Antitrust Act that prohibits manufacturer's from setting the sale price, at least in theory.

So, any beefs regarding the selling price should be with the dealer. The manufacturing costs, overhead, direct and indirect costs, etc. are the MOCO realm  and of course the in-house manufacturing and unions are a big part of this equation. As the infamous, or famous, Hubbard would say "Thus endth the lesson". 
 
Joe

[Robmay]

Actually, the dealership sells you the motorcycle and sets the price, above or below MSRP. They buy the inventory from the MOCO, and the MOCO cannot set the sale price themselves, only 'suggest it', AKA MSRP. There's a little Sherman Antitrust Act that prohibits manufacturer's from setting the sale price, at least in theory.

So, any beefs regarding the selling price should be with the dealer. The manufacturing costs, overhead, direct and indirect costs, etc. are the MOCO realm  and of course the in-house manufacturing and unions are a big part of this equation. As the infamous, or famous, Hubbard would say "Thus endth the lesson". 
 
Joe

Interesting. I have been told by three different dealers that MOCO sets the prices to keep them all in line with one another. My local was selling a while back at $1000 under MSRP on stock bikes and the dealer where I bought My SECUSE (out of town) said they could get in trouble from MOCO over that. 

[skreminegul07]

In the past when there were shortages, dealers were jacking up the prices.  THe MOCO frowned on this activity and rewarded dealers that sold at MSRP with extra inventory.  Back in 1998, a family member bought an anniversary Heritage and the dealer told them that they had to register the bike before delivery.  My brother in law had to call Milwaukee and get them to OK his taking the bike unregisterd.  It had no lien or loan.  There used to be a gray market where by people would buy bikes near MSRP and not register them and wait for the supply to run out and then sell them brand new for a big chunk of change.  Of course this does not apply now. 
One rule:
Supply and Demand

[RedDevil]

Interesting. I have been told by three different dealers that MOCO sets the prices to keep them all in line with one another. My local was selling a while back at $1000 under MSRP on stock bikes and the dealer where I bought My SECUSE (out of town) said they could get in trouble from MOCO over that. 

You've been fed the typical line by dealerships:  "Don't blame me for the cost of these machines, the MoCo tells me I have to sell them at MSRP, and I have to make a living too, so I have to charge over MSRP."  That's all BS...The dealers profit comes in the difference between dealer's cost and what they can get for the bike.  The MoCo cannot dictate prices, hence as said earlier, the reason for MSRP.  If they did, that's price fixing and it's illegal and the MoCo definintely knows this...they have a whole legal department onboard to know the law.  Dealerships blame the MoCo, because they know that if they band together and all agree to charge the same price, that's price fixing also and illegal, so they blame the company.  The only fixed price the MoCo has is the price they charge the dealerships for each particular model of motorcycle they make.  What the dealership does or charges after he purchases the motorcycles, is entirely up to and can be blamed on the dealership itself.  They can charge whatever the market is willing to bear.  If nobody bought motorcycles from any dealership over a model year because the word got to him/her that they charge MSRP or higher and that's too much, guess what, they would start selling their MC's for less or go out of business, it's simple economics.  But as long as there's a demand for HD's the dealers will charge appropriately.
Cheers ,
  

[REGGAB]

I don't know about you all, but I've had it with these dealers.  I have bought my last bike from MOCO at MSRP.  I will buy used until the dealers start bringing the prices down.

Anything over invoice does nothing to the financial stability of MOCO...it's just filling the pockets of all these "out of control" franchises.

Before you say it; you're right, I have a choice and don't have to buy one if I don't want too.

I also understand economics so I don't need a lecture on that either.

I was there for Harley in 1980 and this is how I'm rewarded for my loyalty.

Just wanted to vent...am I alone here?

When it comes to Bret, Terrie, Mary Rose, Chip Poff, Larry Lyle, Luis Odio and the rest of the Appleton family, no Sir.  You're not alone.  In fact, you are in VERY good company.  That clan could care less about the customer after the sale and/or service, yet they still EXPECT the customer to return to them for everything aftermarket.  And don't you even for one minute think they give a chit if you're satisfied.  They've got your money, and they're still not satisfied, so why should they care if you are?  Just recently got them to stop sending their marketing materials to me.  The only reason I stop at that dealership when I visit Clarksville is to use the latrine.

[Rides2007Harley]

I bought my 07 FXDSE in July before the 08's came out and paid 3K under MSRP.  Granted you will not find a CVO bagger for that price but supply and demand dictates the market place.

IMO, the CVO bikes from Harley are no different than the Cobra, SS and such auto special cars, very rarely do you get one for much if any under list price.

[saddlebow]

If MOCO doesn't tell the stealers to charge MSRP + $3K, [which it doesn't] then it ain't telling the dealers that they cannot discount either. Never seems to be a problem to discount at the end of the model year to move the ones that don't move otherwise.   Prior comment is right: all MOCO does is tell the dealers what they have to pay to put the bike  on the floor; after that, it's all dealer's choice. 

[rednectum]

did i mention that i was internet sales managr for huge ford dealer? its all about what the market will bare------have yall noticed the price drop from moco over the last 2 years? it destroys trade and resale value. if you financed , you beter pan on keepin it. if you are wantng new, you now have the ability to negotiate prce. look at what gm did to kill the market with friends and family plan, everybody you know is upside down for three years. laymans terms------bailout to help a floundering market survive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[skippy]

Got my 07 springer 1000.00 below msrp tax & tag  a buddy of mine just had a dealer beat that deal by another grand  . Find a dealer that gets lot of inventory they need to move bikes or they may loose inventory for the next year.

[grc]

Interesting. I have been told by three different dealers that MOCO sets the prices to keep them all in line with one another. My local was selling a while back at $1000 under MSRP on stock bikes and the dealer where I bought My SECUSE (out of town) said they could get in trouble from MOCO over that. 

Well, we all know the dealers lie to us on a regular basis, so this one shouldn't come as a surprise.  As mentioned previously, there are Federal laws concerning price fixing that prohibit folks like GM, Ford, and yes, even the Almighty MoCo, from setting retail prices.  The only price they can legally set is the one the dealer pays to the manufacturer, and even that isn't cast in stone since the manufacturers offer volume discounts and various other incentives to the big boys.

There are companies out there, Apple being one that comes to mind, that walk the fine line and seem to be able to control the retail prices of their products without running afoul of the law.  They can most likely get away with intimidating retailers because there is no agreement that guarantees the retailer product from Apple.  The auto and motorcycle business is very different, with franchise agreements that spell out dealers rights as well as obligations.  So when a Harley dealer tells you the MoCo sets the retail price, he is flat out lying.  Now if he tells you that Harley and the local dealer association recommend not discounting below MSRP, he may be closer to the truth.

Personally, I have no problem paying MSRP as long as that is the price everyone else is paying.  I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that preference either; just look at the "no haggle" auto dealers like Saturn, Car Max, etc.  If MSRP is set to represent a fair return on investment for the dealer, and everyone pays the same price, then I don't see a problem. 

Jerry

BTW - if the MoCo actually did set the retail prices as this dealer claimed, how does he explain the 1k, 3k, 5k, and even 10k over MSRP that some dealers have been charging over the past 10-15 years? 

[MJZ]

did i mention that i was internet sales managr for huge ford dealer? its all about what the market will bare------have yall noticed the price drop from moco over the last 2 years? it destroys trade and resale value. if you financed , you beter pan on keepin it. if you are wantng new, you now have the ability to negotiate prce. look at what gm did to kill the market with friends and family plan, everybody you know is upside down for three years. laymans terms------bailout to help a floundering market survive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just take a look at the Shelby Mustangs. I would buy a Shelby convert. in a minute for list price but the demand sets the price which is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy above MSRP. I agree supply and demand sets the market price, it's the American way.

[rednectum]

Just take a look at the Shelby Mustangs. I would buy a Shelby convert. in a minute for list price but the demand sets the price which is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy above MSRP. I agree supply and demand sets the market price, it's the American way.

yep, when the Ford GT hit showrooms, there were adjusted market value stickers stating markups of over $100.000!!! and some people paid.