Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Black Diamond]

I've got a headache again. Talked to my service/engine guy just now. He read that same footnote and called HD tech. The 110 uses an O-Ring? The 113 uses a gasket? Whenever you bore out the cases, you cut into the o-ring groove, but not completely cutting it out. According to HD Tech, some people have problems with it leaking, others don't. He's tearing the cylinders off the 110 to measure for himself. Has anyone else been through this already?

HogBreath

When I decide to fix my 110. I replaced the stock cylinders with the Axtell 117. Here's a picture after the spigots were milled. The guys at my shop said a 113 would work as well. I simply ponied up for a 117 to get rid of the whole o ring design. Sorry this reply is late in your discussion. Been working to damn much. I know how frustrating this is. Been there....done that....got a t-shirt.

Best of luck.

JW

[56FLE]

Ken,
Sorry to hear about the @*&^!* differences between the 110 and 113.  Hope you get a new engine relatively quickly.  I know how bad you need to be in the wind.  I just got mine back yesterday after they installed the "new and improved"  "B" gasket.  We'll see how long that one lasts before the head starts leaking.   

     

RD,

How many miles did you have on your head gaskets before they began to leak? Was this your first leak?
 

[RedDevil]

RD,

How many miles did you have on your head gaskets before they began to leak? Was this your first leak?
 

56FLE,
Unfortunately, I barely made it to 5K before my first set started leaking...looking at how things are going, if I had more miles on the SEUC, I'd probalby be on my third set of gaskets, or first set of new jugs...it's disheartening to know that this is going to happen and the MoCo isn't doing anything but band-aid (read cheap) fixes to the engine.

   

[HogBreath]

Well, they just keep dangling a carrot in front of me, then taking it away. HD won't replace the engine, but are electing to rebuild it. They are sending out a new crank. Wrench asked if I wanted the crank trued and welded. How long? 3 weeks. NO thanks, just put it back together. I'm not a mechanic, but, if you start the process, there's only one way to do it, all the way or none.

I've been down three weeks so far. I didn't want to start this process this time of year to begin with. The more this drags out, the less they seem to want to do to correct this problem. I'm really disgusted.

I've read some of you guys are tired of hearing people whine about head gasket leaks. I think I've been very level headed about the whole process, but, my patience is wearing very thin. I'm a business man, and I know what it's like to have a customer who thinks you owe him the world. I don't expect something for nothing. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. There's no gray area in my mind. I bought the bike, I paid good money, I've got a 2 year warranty, fix YOUR problem HD. I'm just looking to be made whole. I'm even willing to throw a few thousand dollars at it to get a more permanent fix. But, what is the fix? Jim's 120?

Like I said, I'm pissed. Three weeks and no end is in sight. Are parts ordered? Hell if I know. The engine will go back together exactly like a stock engine. I'll make bets that before winter is here, I'll have another head gasket leak. 

[Chief]

Well, they just keep dangling a carrot in front of me, then taking it away. HD won't replace the engine, but are electing to rebuild it. They are sending out a new crank. Wrench asked if I wanted the crank trued and welded. How long? 3 weeks. NO thanks, just put it back together. I'm not a mechanic, but, if you start the process, there's only one way to do it, all the way or none.

I've been down three weeks so far. I didn't want to start this process this time of year to begin with. The more this drags out, the less they seem to want to do to correct this problem. I'm really disgusted.

I've read some of you guys are tired of hearing people whine about head gasket leaks. I think I've been very level headed about the whole process, but, my patience is wearing very thin. I'm a business man, and I know what it's like to have a customer who thinks you owe him the world. I don't expect something for nothing. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. There's no gray area in my mind. I bought the bike, I paid good money, I've got a 2 year warranty, fix YOUR problem HD. I'm just looking to be made whole. I'm even willing to throw a few thousand dollars at it to get a more permanent fix. But, what is the fix? Jim's 120?

Like I said, I'm pissed. Three weeks and no end is in sight. Are parts ordered? Hell if I know. The engine will go back together exactly like a stock engine. I'll make bets that before winter is here, I'll have another head gasket leak. 

I feel your pain buddy. It's been going far too long. That's for sure.

[Coyote.]

Well, they just keep dangling a carrot in front of me, then taking it away. HD won't replace the engine, but are electing to rebuild it. They are sending out a new crank. Wrench asked if I wanted the crank trued and welded. How long? 3 weeks. NO thanks, just put it back together. I'm not a mechanic, but, if you start the process, there's only one way to do it, all the way or none.

I've been down three weeks so far. I didn't want to start this process this time of year to begin with. The more this drags out, the less they seem to want to do to correct this problem. I'm really disgusted.

I've read some of you guys are tired of hearing people whine about head gasket leaks. I think I've been very level headed about the whole process, but, my patience is wearing very thin. I'm a business man, and I know what it's like to have a customer who thinks you owe him the world. I don't expect something for nothing. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. There's no gray area in my mind. I bought the bike, I paid good money, I've got a 2 year warranty, fix YOUR problem HD. I'm just looking to be made whole. I'm even willing to throw a few thousand dollars at it to get a more permanent fix. But, what is the fix? Jim's 120?

Like I said, I'm pissed. Three weeks and no end is in sight. Are parts ordered? Hell if I know. The engine will go back together exactly like a stock engine. I'll make bets that before winter is here, I'll have another head gasket leak. 

That's why after two rebuilds, I have gone the way of the indy. The stealer will only use factory parts to fix the problem but in this case, that's not going to happen. My indy and his machine shop both agreed it was a mistake to continue to use the OEM jugs. It really sucks that I have to shell out some big $$ to fix a $38k bike. This is my biggest down-time activity and I want this resolved. Even now, I'm missing out on 3 weeks of prime riding. I love my bike but I will never again buy a new Harley. I own my own business and I can tell you I would be eating fish heads and rice if I treated my customers this way!

[MJZ]

I was told by a retired Chrysler / Dodge engineer that the problem is engineered in and the only way to find a fix is to start over from scratch and engineer it out. He said back in the 70's Chrysler went through the same situation, bought a chitload of cars back for those who chose not to accept the engine replacement offers. It is very clear the least costly attempts at a fix MOCO hoped for are not going to work. So what have they decided in those secret closed door meetings? Replace everyones motor with a 103? Abandon the 110 after 09? Then what will be done for the ones out there? Keep trying to find that elusive cheap bandaid and thereby lose a tremendous amount of customer loyalty? You know at some point the lawyers are going to grab the ball and run for their 33%, I'm shocked it hasn't happened yet. I expect any night now to see that Sokoloft firm running commercials advertising the 800 number to call if you or anyone you know purchased a HD bike in 07 or 08 with a 110. I'm afraid if MOCO doesn't belly up to the bar and do the right thing soon, other manufacturers are going to receive a hell of a plan to market against HD. Don't forget the latest try at reviving Indian is scheduled to hit the road in August or September and by then there will be no biker  or bike manufacturer in the world that has not heard the woefully sad tale of the 110 and MOCO's customer support. Of course by then MOCO's "Ken Lay" will have his bonuses in an offshore bank. OK, I'll stop, the end:soapbox:
Wonder if someone is putting commercials together now stating FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS DRIVE A 110.

[skreminegul07]

Well, they just keep dangling a carrot in front of me, then taking it away. HD won't replace the engine, but are electing to rebuild it. They are sending out a new crank. Wrench asked if I wanted the crank trued and welded. How long? 3 weeks. NO thanks, just put it back together. I'm not a mechanic, but, if you start the process, there's only one way to do it, all the way or none.

I've been down three weeks so far. I didn't want to start this process this time of year to begin with. The more this drags out, the less they seem to want to do to correct this problem. I'm really disgusted.

I've read some of you guys are tired of hearing people whine about head gasket leaks. I think I've been very level headed about the whole process, but, my patience is wearing very thin. I'm a business man, and I know what it's like to have a customer who thinks you owe him the world. I don't expect something for nothing. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. There's no gray area in my mind. I bought the bike, I paid good money, I've got a 2 year warranty, fix YOUR problem HD. I'm just looking to be made whole. I'm even willing to throw a few thousand dollars at it to get a more permanent fix. But, what is the fix? Jim's 120?

Like I said, I'm pissed. Three weeks and no end is in sight. Are parts ordered? Hell if I know. The engine will go back together exactly like a stock engine. I'll make bets that before winter is here, I'll have another head gasket leak.  

Then you'll really feel the love when the warranty has runout (like the cranks).  Your offer to throw a few thousand dollars at the fix is sort of counterproductive.  Don't give them wiggle room.  Then you void the warranty and the problem is gone for HD and maybe gone for you.

[iski]

Well, they just keep dangling a carrot in front of me, then taking it away. HD won't replace the engine, but are electing to rebuild it. They are sending out a new crank. Wrench asked if I wanted the crank trued and welded. How long? 3 weeks. NO thanks, just put it back together. I'm not a mechanic, but, if you start the process, there's only one way to do it, all the way or none.

I've been down three weeks so far. I didn't want to start this process this time of year to begin with. The more this drags out, the less they seem to want to do to correct this problem. I'm really disgusted.

I've read some of you guys are tired of hearing people whine about head gasket leaks. I think I've been very level headed about the whole process, but, my patience is wearing very thin. I'm a business man, and I know what it's like to have a customer who thinks you owe him the world. I don't expect something for nothing. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. There's no gray area in my mind. I bought the bike, I paid good money, I've got a 2 year warranty, fix YOUR problem HD. I'm just looking to be made whole. I'm even willing to throw a few thousand dollars at it to get a more permanent fix. But, what is the fix? Jim's 120?

Like I said, I'm pissed. Three weeks and no end is in sight. Are parts ordered? Hell if I know. The engine will go back together exactly like a stock engine. I'll make bets that before winter is here, I'll have another head gasket leak. 

I read your post Ken & the replies here & just shake my head in semi-amazement.  If my company treated our customers this way - especially the ones who pay top dollar for our best stuff - we would be having a going our of business sale if we continued on that path.  When we have problems, we fix them, and nope it ain't easy & yep it costs us a chitpot full of money & we do it because we stand behind what we sell. Even when we lose money on the deal, because it's OUR RESPONSIBILITY.

One of the BIG problems is HD sez nuttin.'  We know they have a problem, they know they have a problem, and yet they just keep mostly mum from corp.  Dealer has been very responsive & helpful so far in my case.  Trouble is, they are stuck with whatever the current company line is on "fixing" the problems.  Currently for me that is gaskets & cylinders.  And I remain hopeful.

3 weeks - your bike in shop - parts maybe ordered, mebbe not?   You are looking at another 2 weeks possibly to get your bike back.  And then wait to see if (when?) it leaks again.  If a sizable number of us end up bailing out to JIMS or the Axtel cylinder fix, it erodes HD's loyalty quotient severely.  I remember the HD leakers from 30+ years ago.  Was riding other brands then and frankly we thought Harleys were jokes.  Underpowered, oil dripping, overpriced junkers.  Hope to God those days are not returning for the MoCo. A damn shame.

Very best of luck & I mean that sincerely.

Mike

[miker]

" Was riding other brands then and frankly we thought Harleys were jokes.  Underpowered, oil dripping, overpriced junkers.  Hope to God those days are not returning for the MoCo. A damn shame."

I think they have..

[iski]

" Was riding other brands then and frankly we thought Harleys were jokes.  Underpowered, oil dripping, overpriced junkers.  Hope to God those days are not returning for the MoCo. A damn shame."

I think they have..

Possibly. 

Realize that comment is like ripping the old Harley rider bible in half, but it is and at the time was the truth for non HD guys.  Took the MoCo years to rebuild their image and they did it with style as well as excellent products.

[Black Diamond]

HogBreath

The guys at my Harley shop discussed my problems (head gasket leak / cylinder liner slip) with me at lenght. They acknowledge these are known problems that Harley is trying to fix but....  Further they recommended Axtell cylinders. They gave me credit for the replacement Harley parts and labor to help off set my cost. 

Further the shop guys told me of some infrequent crank problems. These problems seem to occur for all the newer twin cam motors with the made in China crank. More problems are experienced as the motor displacement goes up. So I decided to do the crank up upgraded by Darkhorse. This was a 10 day turn around.

By the end of this riding season I hope to be able to report no problems and it was money well spent. I know what a big decision you are faced with. Money vs time vs warranty vs I hope the best for you and your scooter for many miles down the road. Hope your in the wind soon.

JW

[miker]

Possibly. 

Realize that comment is like ripping the old Harley rider bible in half, but it is and at the time was the truth for non HD guys.  Took the MoCo years to rebuild their image and they did it with style as well as excellent products.

Yeah, all the while I was buying and riding them anyway....The evo was too good.

[iski]

Yeah, all the while I was buying and riding them anyway....The evo was too good.

Never owned an evo.  Friends did & loved them.  Great platform - guess the twin cam was needed from the EPA standpoint. 

Had a friend who was doing an Ironbutt every year on his Harley in the early 80's. Carried 2 quarts of oil with him.  Kept it parked in his girlfriends dining room with a drip pan under it.  Would just pour the oil back in it from the pan. I was still riding rice bikes then.

[skreminegul07]

HogBreath

The guys at my Harley shop discussed my problems (head gasket leak / cylinder liner slip) with me at lenght. They acknowledge these are known problems that Harley is trying to fix but....  Further they recommended Axtell cylinders. They gave me credit for the replacement Harley parts and labor to help off set my cost. 

Further the shop guys told me of some infrequent crank problems. These problems seem to occur for all the newer twin cam motors with the made in China crank. More problems are experienced as the motor displacement goes up. So I decided to do the crank up upgraded by Darkhorse. This was a 10 day turn around.

By the end of this riding season I hope to be able to report no problems and it was money well spent. I know what a big decision you are faced with. Money vs time vs warranty vs I hope the best for you and your scooter for many miles down the road. Hope your in the wind soon.

JW

JW,
You summed it all up.  HD is playing the waiting game.  Waiting for you to give up and spend money to fix the issues and thus voiding the warranty and HD's reponsibility.  The beancounters figure this as well as the amount that people ride due to the fact a lot do not ride much and also the short riding season in a lot of the country.
As I have posted before, if you think that HD is unresponsive now, wait til your warranty is up and you encounter your first leak.  Will they acknowledge a problem?  And if its not your first leak, will they acknowledge that it was never repaired due to design?  I feel for the majority that are not aware of this site and the issues.
I guess the money thast I'll spend is for a second ride, used and dependable.  I'll not let HD off the hook.