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[Midnight Rider]

I totally agree about the plastic , but I would disagree regarding the cornering unless you make some changes to the HD suspension. As for changing bikes I have no plans on doing that at this point . I love riding any bike and so this is a way to enjoy riding and let other riders know what is out there and what they are like. Not trying to sell any thing not trying to slight any bike just purely enjoying the deference's in all the bikes out there. My experience is a culmination of 41 years of owning and riding all brands and looking at them from a touring or sport touring aspect.I hope others find the information useful.

Extremely useful info, BD...I sat on a new wing the other day, and even at 5'8" felt a little cramped regarding the seat/floorboard positioning.  Still, a REALLY nice bike...loved the way the TP and Bags opened with the levers under the TP, and LOTS of room for stuff.  I recently sat on a brand new 06 Stratoliner and REALLY like the way it felt, with the aluminum frame...it's a Road King with good suspension, excellent brakes, and a mono shock.  I was relatively shocked at the relatively low seat height on the Wing, even for my height.  And Traxxion can make a great bike even better.

No Wing for me though...just can't go there for some reason.  The one I sat on was a beautiful Pearl White, and a damn good looking/feeling bike, regardless of the plastic.

Have read nothing but good things about the Stratoliner line...I know where I can get a brand new 06 Midnight for a REALLY good price...1854cc motor, belt drive, retro look, and have read nothing bad about it.  117TQ out of the box ain't bad...and that's at 2K RPM.  Honestly, it's the closest thing to a HD RK I've sat on.

I'll be watching for the Beemer review, though the seat height is a big issue for me on all the Beemers.

Excellent objective reports!!!

[BIGDOG]

Well I am back from a a short tour and I must say it ended on a sour note . My bike ate it's clutch and Harley will not back it up saying it is a wear part and not covered . Being as I have logged well over 300,000 mile in my riding history and never had a clutch issue I think it is safe to say that this clutch should have lasted more than 5000 miles.
I will be testing the BMW K1200LT and the K1200GT on Saturday and will give a report on both. I will let you know which bike I will be switching to. As Harley can no longer build a bike that can stand the test of being ridden with out constant repair [reminiscent of AMF days]I will be switching to ether BMW or Honda .
Just a reminder of quality issues encountered. Leaking lower cylinder seal , replaced ECM , replaced left side Switches , Heated Grips no longer work , Heads need replaced , acr's need replaced , Head gaskets need replaced , Valve guides need replaced , Fuel shell Has been replaced . Ain't that a bitch.
I will let you know what happens.

[CVOJOE]

Once you do the BMW K1200LT and the K1200GT, you'll probably never look back. It's after all over engineered, tested, and made for the autobahns of Europe. The downside is getting rid of all the HD t-shirts, jackets, and collectibles and spare parts.  AND ........it's not a Harley.

I used to ride a friends's 2003 K1200LT fairly regularly and it handled far better than any HD I've ever riden outside of an FXR ,and the performance was awesome, smooth (no vibrations) and it would easily run away from or certainly run away from nearly all Winger-Wangs or HD's. It did seem a bit top heavy at times. But I will say everything on it worked and he had zilch problems with it, but aside from the stuff under the seat, it was hard to work on with all the
plastic covering up the innards.

Good luck with your choice!!
Joe

[RedFXR2]

You guys might like this.  A comparo between HD, Victory, Honda and BMW tourers.

[SBB]

You guys might like this.  A comparo between HD, Victory, Honda and BMW tourers.

Red

Thanks bud!
So he went for the BMW.
Did you catch the part about the Victory being, , , , ah, , , how did he say it, , , uuuuuggggly!
Was funny listening to him call the Harley a Holley.
A fairly entertaining video!

 

[rubaga]

excellent video! Thanks for posting.

[Midnight Rider]

Well I am back from a a short tour and I must say it ended on a sour note . My bike ate it's clutch and Harley will not back it up saying it is a wear part and not covered . Being as I have logged well over 300,000 mile in my riding history and never had a clutch issue I think it is safe to say that this clutch should have lasted more than 5000 miles.
I will be testing the BMW K1200LT and the K1200GT on Saturday and will give a report on both. I will let you know which bike I will be switching to. As Harley can no longer build a bike that can stand the test of being ridden with out constant repair [reminiscent of AMF days]I will be switching to ether BMW or Honda .
Just a reminder of quality issues encountered. Leaking lower cylinder seal , replaced ECM , replaced left side Switches , Heated Grips no longer work , Heads need replaced , acr's need replaced , Head gaskets need replaced , Valve guides need replaced , Fuel shell Has been replaced . Ain't that a bitch.
I will let you know what happens.

With all those problems, then a blown clutch, I can't say that I blame you one bit.  Did you call the factory or just deal with the dealer?  Whatever...it sucks big ones.

Back to the topic of Victory...the thing that probably concerns me most about buying one of their bikes is the relatively small number of dealers in some states.  If you were on the road and had an issue, in some cases it could be difficult to get the situation resolved.  Of course, that isn't so much the case with BMW, Yamaha, Honda, etc...there's one in almost every town or city of any size.  Particularly the Japanese brands.  The K1200GT is sweet, but leans more towards the sport than the touring...the LT is pure luxury on wheels.  Have a great time test riding and choosing!!

[geezerglide]

With all those problems, then a blown clutch, I can't say that I blame you one bit.  Did you call the factory or just deal with the dealer?  Whatever...it sucks big ones.

Back to the topic of Victory...the thing that probably concerns me most about buying one of their bikes is the relatively small number of dealers in some states.  If you were on the road and had an issue, in some cases it could be difficult to get the situation resolved.  Of course, that isn't so much the case with BMW, Yamaha, Honda, etc...there's one in almost every town or city of any size.  Particularly the Japanese brands.  The K1200GT is sweet, but leans more towards the sport than the touring...the LT is pure luxury on wheels.  Have a great time test riding and choosing!!

In the case of BMW their are not that many dealers in the Mid West. Their is a dealer in Sturgis and the next half decent sized dealers are in Denver, Salt lake and Vegas do not know about the West Coast or the East Coast.

In Western Canada their are factory dealers in Calgary (in Calgary and Alberta everyone prefer to go to an Indy, Anderwerks, who is excellent) and one in Edmonton, Kamloops and Vancouver. Plus the odd multi bike shops who may be able to work on BMW.

geezerglide

geezerglide

[grc]

I guess when a person rides an extremely unreliable product, the number of authorized dealers in the vicinity could be a very important factor.  However, if you ride a reliable product it probably won't be a big deal if there isn't an authorized dealership on every street corner.

I've got 3 good sized Harley dealerships within a 20 mile radius of my house, and there's more than 6 if I expand the radius to 50 miles.  Having all those dealers nearby doesn't mean jack crap if they can't fix chit, or when the bike constantly needs something fixed.  It makes it real handy when you need a quick T-shirt, however.

Go for the reliable brands.  If enough of us do it perhaps the MoCo will get the hint and start looking at quality and reliability as important parts of a business plan.

BIGDOG, who blew you off on the clutch failure, local yokel dealership or H-D?  While things like brake pads and clutch plates are usually considered to be maintenance items, that's only if they don't fail prematurely due to a defect.  A defective brake pad or clutch is still covered by the warranty.  Of course, if you've been out drag racing every weekend I can understand only getting 5k miles on the clutch.  If you've been riding like a reasonably sane individual, however, there needs to be a review of the situation by the corporate folks.

Jerry

[NWbiker]

The others have their problems to. The 1800 2002 Goldwing I had, had a recall for the frame cracking.  That was a big controversy at the time.  Mine had to be laid on its side and welded with a special set up and weld that even the dealer could not do. 

[geezerglide]

I guess when a person rides an extremely unreliable product, the number of authorized dealers in the vicinity could be a very important factor.  However, if you ride a reliable product it probably won't be a big deal if there isn't an authorized dealership on every street corner.

I've got 3 good sized Harley dealerships within a 20 mile radius of my house, and there's more than 6 if I expand the radius to 50 miles.  Having all those dealers nearby doesn't mean jack crap if they can't fix chit, or when the bike constantly needs something fixed.  It makes it real handy when you need a quick T-shirt, however.

Go for the reliable brands.  If enough of us do it perhaps the MoCo will get the hint and start looking at quality and reliability as important parts of a business plan.

BIGDOG, who blew you off on the clutch failure, local yokel dealership or H-D?  While things like brake pads and clutch plates are usually considered to be maintenance items, that's only if they don't fail prematurely due to a defect.  A defective brake pad or clutch is still covered by the warranty.  Of course, if you've been out drag racing every weekend I can understand only getting 5k miles on the clutch.  If you've been riding like a reasonably sane individual, however, there needs to be a review of the situation by the corporate folks.

Jerry

Jerry,

I was not implying that BMWs are not good motorcycles and require a dealership on every corner, however having owned owned one and riding with some BMW Riders over the years, and just recently selling my 04 R1150 GS Adventure I know of quit a few problems they have had. Example Final Drive Issues on the 1220s. Alarm Transformer issues etc. For more information check out the Adventure Rider, BMWOA websites. I would say BMW is a reliable manufacturer, like anything mechanical they can and will have issues.

And in regards to dealers, if need be I use mostly independents and I have not bought a new Harley from a dealer, every one I have bought has been a low miler second hand bike. Saying that I may have to eventually go to a dealer if I want to get an 09 SERG or wait till someone who buys one changes his mind and would rather have an Ultra.

geezerglide

[BIGDOG]

Thanks for all the info and support . As for the blow off it was by the dealer and he claims Harley, I have taken the issue up with my normal dealer and he is going to bat for me . I will also be in touch with Harley to file a protest.
My decision to switch brands is financial as well as looking for reliability. I can spend another $35,000 to get another CVO or I can spend $24,000 and get a BMW or Wing and be $10,000 ahead of the game. I am leaning to the BMW but it is only available in black and seat height could be a problem. The Wing fits me perfectly and they have a gray one that is gorgeous . The ride is what will tell , the Wing rides great so I will know about the BMW tomorrow. As for dealers , that is a concern and we will be talking about it with the dealer. My understanding is BMW has a lot of dealers on the east and west coast and only a few in the mid states so that could be an issue. The Wing can be serviced any where and that is a major plus but I must admit I'm having a hard time saying Honda after all the crap I have given them in the past. I guess crow isn't all that bad if prepared right.
I will have to have a garage sale to rid myself of all the parts and stuff I have collected over the long run with Harley but a new start on a new brand is kinda exciting and will be lots of fun also. Thanks to all for putting up with me and my rants I will let you know what happens tomorrow.
So for tonight , have a good one
BIGDOG

[T MAC]

You guys might like this.  A comparo between HD, Victory, Honda and BMW tourers.

Thanks for the video.  Good Information.

[T MAC]

Thanks for all the info and support . As for the blow off it was by the dealer and he claims Harley, I have taken the issue up with my normal dealer and he is going to bat for me . I will also be in touch with Harley to file a protest.
My decision to switch brands is financial as well as looking for reliability. I can spend another $35,000 to get another CVO or I can spend $24,000 and get a BMW or Wing and be $10,000 ahead of the game. I am leaning to the BMW but it is only available in black and seat height could be a problem. The Wing fits me perfectly and they have a gray one that is gorgeous . The ride is what will tell , the Wing rides great so I will know about the BMW tomorrow. As for dealers , that is a concern and we will be talking about it with the dealer. My understanding is BMW has a lot of dealers on the east and west coast and only a few in the mid states so that could be an issue. The Wing can be serviced any where and that is a major plus but I must admit I'm having a hard time saying Honda after all the crap I have given them in the past. I guess crow isn't all that bad if prepared right.
I will have to have a garage sale to rid myself of all the parts and stuff I have collected over the long run with Harley but a new start on a new brand is kinda exciting and will be lots of fun also. Thanks to all for putting up with me and my rants I will let you know what happens tomorrow.
So for tonight , have a good one


THANKS for all the detailed information on your rides.  I always appreciate an experienced riders point of view on other bikes.  Sorry to hear of your troubles with HD hopefully they will do the right thing for you.
BIGDOG

[SBB]

Thanks for all the info and support . As for the blow off it was by the dealer and he claims Harley, I have taken the issue up with my normal dealer and he is going to bat for me . I will also be in touch with Harley to file a protest.
My decision to switch brands is financial as well as looking for reliability. I can spend another $35,000 to get another CVO or I can spend $24,000 and get a BMW or Wing and be $10,000 ahead of the game. I am leaning to the BMW but it is only available in black and seat height could be a problem. The Wing fits me perfectly and they have a gray one that is gorgeous . The ride is what will tell , the Wing rides great so I will know about the BMW tomorrow. As for dealers , that is a concern and we will be talking about it with the dealer. My understanding is BMW has a lot of dealers on the east and west coast and only a few in the mid states so that could be an issue. The Wing can be serviced any where and that is a major plus but I must admit I'm having a hard time saying Honda after all the crap I have given them in the past. I guess crow isn't all that bad if prepared right.
I will have to have a garage sale to rid myself of all the parts and stuff I have collected over the long run with Harley but a new start on a new brand is kinda exciting and will be lots of fun also. Thanks to all for putting up with me and my rants I will let you know what happens tomorrow.
So for tonight , have a good one
BIGDOG

BigDog

Here's my advice and what I would do.
Buy the Goldwing, save the 10K and ride your ass off and have some fun!
If what you have doesn't make you happy, change it. It's that simple.
You strike me as a man that's about the ride, not the image the ride presents.
I will enjoy talking with and respect you, , , , regardless of what you ride.
I wish you luck and can only say, , , , it's a shame their not available in Silver and Black!
Good luck with your decision.

SBB