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[hard10]

Aw, shaddup, you modified 110, non-cushdrive ridin, post whore!!  

  

Still pissed about losing 50 posts, huh?

Ouch!

You guys are brutal. Don't worry Howie, I'll bring some boiled p-nuts to MV08 and everything will be alright.

[Eqcons]

So no heads for the SERKs either. Go figger.

The only thing I can think of is that they've determined that they had more valve guide problems on the CUSE's than on the others. The CUSE's had a much higher rate of leaks too, so maybe that means the CUSE's run hotter head temps which in turn caused more valve guide problems.

I'm sure they're not replacing heads on the CUSE's unless they have no other way to fix a problem. Of course if you have problems, then it will still get fixed under warranty, but they're not replacing heads just for the sake of giving away parts.

I suspect the Cuse runs hotter, so the temps required to make the valve guides fail are only reached on the Cuse....

Jim

[Eqcons]

Interesting that I posted this on here on 24th July 07:

"I thought I'd peruse the workshop manuals for the touring bikes and the SE bikes for clues.  Interestingly - if the manual(s) are correct, while the '07 touring bikes still have a "locking ring" - a circlip I guess - on the guide to prevent it from going downwards, the SE heads appear to have no such locking ring!  So, if that is correct, are we sensible in guessing that the extreme rear head temps - remember our old friend detonationum extremis as they used to say in Rome - meant that the alloy head and the (phosphor bronze???) guide, with their differential coefficients of expansion, expanded too differently and when the bike cooled overnight the guide dropped as it became loose.    We'll never know I guess, but I still find it more than a little surprising - if it is indeed true - that standard heads have the circlip on the guides, while Squealin' Beagle heads do not!"

The MoCo should have asked me what to do a year ago! 

Jim

[skreminegul07]

I suspect the Cuse runs hotter, so the temps required to make the valve guides fail are only reached on the Cuse....

Jim

I agree, but is their engineering that precise to be able to make a decision like that?  10 or 15 degrees due to the lowers, even if 30-40 we're talking bikes in different climates.   

[Eqcons]

I agree, but is their engineering that precise to be able to make a decision like that?    

Don't forget it's the MoCo we're talking about - of course not! Won't stop them from making it though..... 

Jim

[J-Carr]

Aw, shaddup, you modified 110, non-cushdrive ridin, post whore!!  

  

Howie,

Yeah!!! What he said. 

Ride Safe,
J-Carr

[skreminegul07]

So if you add a fairing (BH cover your eyes) and lowers, will you get new valve guides, or more likely if a valve guide fails and YOU added those parts, HD will blame you for installing unsupported features that caused the valve guide to fail.

[grc]

I think I can assure you that I can cause the cylinder head temp of a road king or a springer or a dyna to reach the same temperatures as a CUSE.  The lowers don't have any major effect sitting still, and if you want to melt any one of these engines down just let them sit idling in high ambient temps long enough. And if you want to speed up the process, install some of those lovely deflector shields to direct the heat back toward the rear cylinder. To my way of thinking, someone at the MoCo has once again just taken the easy and cheap way out, probably figuring that the majority of the failures will come on the Ultra because there are more of them and they tend to be ridden many more miles than some of the other models.

I still find it strange that they even acknowledged the valve guide issue, which is probably a combination of p-poor engineering and p-poor vendor quality (press fit components must be made to exacting tolerances, especially when dealing with dissimilar materials).  The cylinder liner "slippage" is the same kind of issue, but no wholesale replacement is planned.  The crank scissoring is also a similar type of issue, but no mention is even made acknowledging there has been a problem or that the potential for a problem exists in thousands of engines.  I guess my point is, this little "Upgrade Program" is a feeble attempt to convince present and potential customers that H-D is on top of the situation (after two friggin' years of denial) and that it's OK to buy more crap from them now that they've shown they are a stand-up organization with the customer as their main focus (gag).

Suggestion:  Collect all this information that has been posted plus the various letters and bulletins and tuck it away somewhere.  Then ride the sucker like you stole it until it either proves you got one of the good ones, or it proves the opposite.  During that time, develop a good buddy relationship with a killer attorney.  Next time you get the urge to hand H-D $30k or $40k, have that good buddy start commitment proceedings and freeze your assets.

Jerry

[Hoist!]

I think I can assure you that I can cause the cylinder head temp of a road king or a springer or a dyna to reach the same temperatures as a CUSE.  The lowers don't have any major effect sitting still, and if you want to melt any one of these engines down just let them sit idling in high ambient temps long enough. And if you want to speed up the process, install some of those lovely deflector shields to direct the heat back toward the rear cylinder. To my way of thinking, someone at the MoCo has once again just taken the easy and cheap way out, probably figuring that the majority of the failures will come on the Ultra because there are more of them and they tend to be ridden many more miles than some of the other models.

I still find it strange that they even acknowledged the valve guide issue, which is probably a combination of p-poor engineering and p-poor vendor quality (press fit components must be made to exacting tolerances, especially when dealing with dissimilar materials).  The cylinder liner "slippage" is the same kind of issue, but no wholesale replacement is planned.  The crank scissoring is also a similar type of issue, but no mention is even made acknowledging there has been a problem or that the potential for a problem exists in thousands of engines.  I guess my point is, this little "Upgrade Program" is a feeble attempt to convince present and potential customers that H-D is on top of the situation (after two friggin' years of denial) and that it's OK to buy more crap from them now that they've shown they are a stand-up organization with the customer as their main focus (gag).

Suggestion:  Collect all this information that has been posted plus the various letters and bulletins and tuck it away somewhere.  Then ride the sucker like you stole it until it either proves you got one of the good ones, or it proves the opposite.  During that time, develop a good buddy relationship with a killer attorney.  Next time you get the urge to hand H-D $30k or $40k, have that good buddy start commitment proceedings and freeze your assets.

Jerry

But Jerry, they did fix the crank issue. It's in the '09 Tech Bulletin. They raised the spec again to 0.013". Problem solved!

Hoist!

[Eqcons]

But Jerry, they did fix the crank issue. It's in the '09 Tech Bulletin. They raised the spec again to 0.013". Problem solved!

Hoist!

[BIGDOG]

Before you call CS, hit yourself in the head with a hammer several times just so you can bring yourself down to their intelligence level when you are speaking with them.
                                                                       

Thank you ! Had Hoist thought of this he would have suggested I didn't need to hit myself in the head , he would have suggested I was already there. 

Now I really am gone riding

[sportygordy]

But Jerry, they did fix the crank issue. It's in the '09 Tech Bulletin. They raised the spec again to 0.013". Problem solved!

Hoist!

Are you kidding me?? You mean i ordered a 131" for nothing? Im sending it back now....

[Steve_G]

I'm wondering when I should get the "enhancement program" done.  Should I fight my way to the front of the line, or hold off for a couple months or so (since my bike's not leaking YET)?  Who knows, maybe if I wait they'll start an update of the program and may start throwing in a better cylinder?

[grc]

I'm wondering when I should get the "enhancement program" done.  Should I fight my way to the front of the line, or hold off for a couple months or so (since my bike's not leaking YET)?  Who knows, maybe if I wait they'll start an update of the program and may start throwing in a better cylinder?

Ah, Steve, I would suggest waiting and let them do it during the off season.  By that time they may have had enough practice to improve your odds of getting it done correctly and without collateral damage.  But I don't think waiting is going to result in a new design cylinder.  Once H-D chooses to officially declare something fixed or a non-issue, they are loath to backtrack and look foolish.  Of course, if they ever got their heads out of the sand they would realize we all think they're pretty foolish already.

Jerry

[skreminegul07]

I'm wondering when I should get the "enhancement program" done.  Should I fight my way to the front of the line, or hold off for a couple months or so (since my bike's not leaking YET)?  Who knows, maybe if I wait they'll start an update of the program and may start throwing in a better cylinder?

There will be a shortage of cylinders once everyone goes inside their motors and find liners slipped.  Thet were 3-4 weeks on back order last year, it won't be better with 24000 people getting a recall.  That's why they give you teweo years, tthat's how long the parts will be dfelayed.  Not funny.