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[sadunbar]

This thing is going to make me lose sleep.  Just walked out to garage and ran the bike on the lift at about 2K for about ten minutes.  Oil temp to almost 190 on the dash gauge.  Never a drop leaking.  Dry as the proverbial popcorn fart.

If I rode the back for ten minutes there would be leakage.  At this point I'm not even sure what the distinction tells me.  Just that it's a difference.  Will think about it more later....

I suppose if there is a minuscule crack - it could possibly need added stress from riding to open up.  But I doubt it...

[VANAMAL]

i know you said you checked but sounds like pressure is building up. id ck that again 

[Twolanerider]

I suppose if there is a minuscule crack - it could possible need added stress from riding to open up.  But I doubt it...

I was thinking about a little extra crankcase pressure.  But that seems far fetched too.  Would think if there was enough crankcase pressure to push oil through something it'd puke out the dipstick first.  Or if the leak point was so large it needed so little pressure that the dipstick wasn't puked out that it leak more easily.  

Ok, more data.  Had forgotten about Matt's suggestion to spray deodorant on the area for more contrast.  Against the red pan it was dark enough it was hard to judge much.  Against the aluminum pan it appeared to be leaking from just above the pan and both running down and getting blown up just a bit.  

With the extra contrast from the deodorant (Arrid  X-tra Dry XXX) and after what may have been a perfectly timed short ride I'm now less sure of anything than I was before.  And I'd become so unsure of anything here that that's saying something.

This leak (which never presented before the oil pan was removed and has then been consistent since that time) appears to be coming from the transmission side cover.  Specifically directly beneath the forward most of the lower pair of bolts through the tranny side cover (i.e., the front bolt that goes through most exhaust brackets).

It's almost impossible to get an angle, position and lighting for a picture.  This shows it though.  Not well.  But it does.  Added a couple captions for orientation's sake.

Rode it just long enough to get the leak but not enough for it to spread forward or back any.  Six miles got a nice straight and narrow vertical leak with the high point at the tranny side cover.

So....

I thought that high up it was gear oil not engine oil?  

Why did it start there collateral to the pan being removed the first time (I'm still concerned about nascent case damage that only presented because of the other work --  this side cover bolt hole is directly adjacent to the pan bolt that is pulled when the pan is installed).

If those side cover bolt holes intrude in to the oil pan do they do so terminally through their end or just with the casting around the bolt hole facing the oil pan?  If so still I'm still worried about a crack.

Am even less sure what I'm chasing now than when I thought I'd narrowed it down a bit before.  This doth suck and annoy me.

[VANAMAL]

its not this bad is it??

[Twolanerider]

its not this bad is it??

Oh god no  !!


Whose ugly mess is that?

[sadunbar]

If those side cover bolt holes intrude in to the oil pan do they do so terminally through their end or just with the casting around the bolt hole facing the oil pan?  

Can you pull the questionable bolt from the side cover with the exhaust in place?  To check for cross drilling into the oil pan?

[sadunbar]

It would appear from the picture in the link and the attached picture that it is possible the offending transmission side cover bolt hole may intrude into the oil pan.   


http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=23153.msg569068#msg569068

[Twolanerider]

It would appear from the picture in the link and the attached picture that it is possible the offending transmission side cover bolt hole may intrude into the oil pan.  

My thought also Scott.  Though still questioning where.  Whether it be through its end terminally or via some defect in the casting through the bottom of the hole.

Can you pull the questionable bolt from the side cover with the exhaust in place?  To check for cross drilling into the oil pan?

No.  Exhaust will have to come off again to get at the bolts that go through the  bearing plate.  To visualize more than if the hole is open or not will have to pull the bearing plate; and the tranny guts along with it.

When those bolts were out a couple days ago did give a brief look to as much as could be seen.  But with the bearing plate outside the hole just couldn't see much.  And I'm still not sure which fluid cavity is where against that part of the casting.  

Wish I had the Road King's tranny case here to look at.  But it's with some buddies at a lab in Chicago getting a little microscopy done to confirm my welds were ok for its repair.  So no parts easily at hand to use as a mule without just tearing this one open.

Separate thought; thanks Matt for the spray deodorant idea.  With that white background for contrast what is now recognizable did not look at all the same before.  Not even close.  That's a neat trick.

[murphy]

Deodorant on a motorcycle?

Try secret, it's strong enough for a Red Bike... but made for a woman!

[Twolanerider]

Deodorant on a motorcycle?

Try secret, it's strong enough for a Red Bike... but made for a woman!

Dammit, I didn't think of that..... 

[shortdog]

The beauty of it all. A dilemma, wrapped in a conundrum surrounded by an enigma, in an inaccessible location.
Two Lane you have way more patience than I. I would have already gotten a bigger hammer and been to the supplier for a new pan (at least three), new trans case (probably two.) and six tubes of blue stuff,two red and three black, etc. etc.
Also would have inadvertently produced at least three new scratches in several locations not even remotely located near the work area. Good Luck.

[Twolanerider]

The beauty of it all. A dilemma, wrapped in a conundrum surrounded by an enigma, in an inaccessible location.
Two Lane you have way more patience than I. I would have already gotten a bigger hammer and been to the supplier for a new pan (at least three), new trans case (probably two.) and six tubes of blue stuff,two red and three black, etc. etc.
Also would have inadvertently produced at least three new scratches in several locations not even remotely located near the work area. Good Luck.

Thanks man.  The good wishes are always appreciated.  "Process" problems or stories usually intrigue me a bit.  This one stopped being fun though.  At least until a break away from it has been had.  Fortunately no collateral damage to bike or parts so far (other than whatever caused the leak itself).  So paint and chrome and other shiny bits are all happy.  Taking a break from it for a day or three will help to insure they stay undamaged .

[Twolanerider]

Spoke with a machine shop this afternoon that repairs engine and tranny cases.  Old shop too that has seen most anything.  Confirming what I already thought to be the case they said that forward lower bolt hole through the trap door in to the tranny case is a blind hole.  Tranny oil is above that hole in the casting.  Engine oil is below it.  The hole itself is blind.

Crap.  That's what I thought.  But.... crap.

[sadunbar]

Spoke with a machine shop this afternoon that repairs engine and tranny cases.  Old shop too that has seen most anything.  Confirming what I already thought to be the case they said that forward lower bolt hole through the trap door in to the tranny case is a blind hole.  Tranny oil is above that hole in the casting.  Engine oil is below it.  The hole itself is blind.

Crap.  That's what I thought.  But.... crap.

If there is a crack not readibly visible from the outside of the case, perhaps there is an internal crack from the oil pan into the forward lower bolt hole...  Have you removed the bolt to see if oil is present behind it?  (exhaust has to come off....right?)

[hogasm]

OK Don a little trick we used to do with race motors before most people even heard of coatings....it has been around for a long time....the same coating that is put on piston skirts, valve stems, intake runners, connecting rods, gears..etc....can be sprayed in the case and it will seal any and all voids that can and will cause leaks. We used to get engines where the blocks were too porus and we would have them treated and the oil seepage would stop.
HPC  SO2