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[sadunbar]

I guess one question that would help in figuring out if stainless is better in this application than "regular" steel is what would be the life expectancy of the "regular" product? 

Nothing hugely significant, Terry, but Stainless Steel exhaust has a few advantages over carbon steel exhaust.

It will last longer - as it is much more resistant to corrosion.

It will look better and is easier to clean.

It will stay cleaner internally (due to less corrosion) which helps flow thru the header.

It is lighter.

It will absorb less heat, which means it will conduct less heat to you, and it will keep the exhaust gases within the pipe hotter.  This will help the velocity of the gases exiting the engine, which improves flow thru the engine somewhat.  (this advantage is multiplied when the stainless steel pipe is ceramic coated)

[Midnight Rider]

Thanks, Scott...all that makes perfect sense.

[Steve Cole]

Nothing hugely significant, Terry, but Stainless Steel exhaust has a few advantages over carbon steel exhaust.

It will last longer - as it is much more resistant to corrosion.

It will look better and is easier to clean.

It will stay cleaner internally (due to less corrosion) which helps flow thru the header.

It is lighter.

It will absorb less heat, which means it will conduct less heat to you, and it will keep the exhaust gases within the pipe hotter.  This will help the velocity of the gases exiting the engine, which improves flow thru the engine somewhat.  (this advantage is multiplied when the stainless steel pipe is ceramic coated)

It also has some disadvantages and I see you did not mention those. The whole reason for me posting about it was simple. One is making a statement that SS is better than mild steel in this application. That is not necessarily the truth in all cases and this is one of them. Lower quality SS does rust and that is the brown coloring the pipe takes on. So if it browns, its rusting and is no better than mild steel and I am willing to bet if you made two equal made exhaust pipes on a HD you would be hard pressed to see any difference. in weight. Now as far as these comments go

"It will last longer - as it is much more resistant to corrosion."

Not so if the pipe rust.

"It will look better and is easier to clean."

Not true since both are coated.

"It will stay cleaner internally (due to less corrosion) which helps flow thru the header."

Wishful thinking at best as carbon deposits could care less if it's SS or mild steel.

"It is lighter."

Not in this case

"It will absorb less heat, which means it will conduct less heat to you, and it will keep the exhaust gases within the pipe hotter.  This will help the velocity of the gases exiting the engine, which improves flow thru the engine somewhat.  (this advantage is multiplied when the stainless steel pipe is ceramic coated)"

This statement is by far your worst, Heat is greatly dependent on the cooling air around the pipe, the slight difference between the two materials in this application it's going to be non measurable. With the ceramic coating which both use there is going to be no difference!

This is just why I made the post! SS also cracks much easier than mild steel and it tends to do it right next to where it has been welded but that seems to get left out. SS has an issue with hydrogen enbrittlement, mild steel does not. This occurs mostly when SS is put through thermal cycle extreme's (as in an exhaust system) and exposed to continues vibrations. Anyone here ever know a HD to vibrate any?

Both products seem to do a good job but if you think one has an advantage in this case being  SS you are sadly mistaken. SS is a great material and when used in many applications it far exceeds what mild steel will do, this isn't one of those applications.

[guppytrash]

The whole reason for me posting about it was simple.

Yea it was!  Blaa Blaa Blaa.
 
Fuel moto no longer sales TTS.  Steve Cole is TTS.
So therefore the SS is not the quality it is advertised as, and the welds are going to crack, and the whole darn thing is going to rust.
Blaa Blaa Blaa.
And as Paul Harvey used to say "now you know the rest of the story"

Can I get another Blaa Blaa Blaa?

[sadunbar]

It also has some disadvantages and I see you did not mention those. The whole reason for me posting about it was simple. One is making a statement that SS is better than mild steel in this application. That is not necessarily the truth in all cases and this is one of them. Lower quality SS does rust and that is the brown coloring the pipe takes on. So if it browns, its rusting and is no better than mild steel and I am willing to bet if you made two equal made exhaust pipes on a HD you would be hard pressed to see any difference. in weight. You are the only one talking about "lower quality SS", which is not what the Jackpot pipes are constructed from.  But my comments were directed at Terry's question - which only refered to Stainless steel vs. Carbon steel. Now as far as these comments go

"It will last longer - as it is much more resistant to corrosion."

Not so if the pipe rust.  Stainless steel is much more resistant to corrosion as compared to Carbon steel.  Are you suggesting otherwise?

"It will look better and is easier to clean."

Not true since both are coated.  Terry's question which I was responding to did not refer to any coatings.  My comment was specific to stainless steel vs. carbon steel and is accurate.

"It will stay cleaner internally (due to less corrosion) which helps flow thru the header."

Wishful thinking at best as carbon deposits could care less if it's SS or mild steel.  I made no reference to carbon deposits - you did.  You will have to think deeper to understand my comment.

"It is lighter."

Not in this case  huh?

"It will absorb less heat, which means it will conduct less heat to you, and it will keep the exhaust gases within the pipe hotter.  This will help the velocity of the gases exiting the engine, which improves flow thru the engine somewhat.  (this advantage is multiplied when the stainless steel pipe is ceramic coated)"

This statement is by far your worst, Heat is greatly dependent on the cooling air around the pipe, the slight difference between the two materials in this application it's going to be non measurable. With the ceramic coating which both use there is going to be no difference!  Again, Terry did not mention coatings in his question of Stainless steel vs. Carbon steel.  It is factual that Stainless steel absorbs less heat than Carbon steel, regardless of cooling air around the pipe or anywhere else.  Because stainless steel absorbs less heat, the gases internal to the pipe retain more heat, hence my comment - which is completely accurate.

This is just why I made the post! SS also cracks much easier than mild steel and it tends to do it right next to where it has been welded but that seems to get left out. SS has an issue with hydrogen enbrittlement, mild steel does not. This occurs mostly when SS is put through thermal cycle extreme's (as in an exhaust system) and exposed to continues vibrations. Anyone here ever know a HD to vibrate any?  Bioreactors, pressure tanks, pressure vessels, etc. are all made from stainless steel.  Properly welded by certified welders, using the correct materials, stainless steel is far less prone to cracking than carbon steel.  You are far out of your area of expertise.

Both products seem to do a good job but if you think one has an advantage in this case being  SS you are sadly mistaken. SS is a great material and when used in many applications it far exceeds what mild steel will do, this isn't one of those applications.

But I'm confident you disagree and will say so...past history and all...  

[Steve Cole]

I am not an expert on SS other than years of being involved with it used in EXHAUST SYSTEMS. What I reported are the facts when used in this application not anything else. The failures posted are real but again you just glanced over them. So since you seem to be the SS expert and I am not how about telling us all, in this case only, what the real world measurable differences are. No theory but real world facts. As for carbon deposits that is what is in the exhaust stream flowing through the pipes day in and day out. This is what attaches itself to the ID of the pipe and you tried to claim better flow due to it being SS and that is BS in this application. You see I live in the real world and not only need to look at the properties of a material but the application of that material for what it is being used for.  As for the quality of the SS being used by Fuelmoto how come it is turning brown and rusting in the field if it's such a great material? This again, is a real fact and  why they (Fuelmoto) switch to coating the pipes after these reports came back from people who bought them prior to Fuelmoto switching to coating them all.

Look, both pipes are going to perform pretty close to the same if not the same but trying to sell it because one is SS is just BS. It's not going to make it run cooler or radiate less heat in this application and yes SS does have downsides just as mild steel does.

[sadunbar]

I am not an expert on SS (Really?  I couldn't tell...) other than years of being involved with it used in EXHAUST SYSTEMS. What I reported are the facts when used in this application not anything else. The failures posted are real but again you just glanced over them. So since you seem to be the SS expert and I am not how about telling us all, in this case only, what the real world measurable differences are. No theory but real world facts. As for carbon deposits that is what is in the exhaust stream flowing through the pipes day in and day out. This is what attaches itself to the ID of the pipe and you tried to claim better flow due to it being SS and that is BS in this application. You see I live in the real world and not only need to look at the properties of a material but the application of that material for what it is being used for.  As for the quality of the SS being used by Fuelmoto how come it is turning brown and rusting in the field if it's such a great material? This again, is a real fact and  why they (Fuelmoto) switch to coating the pipes after these reports came back from people who bought them prior to Fuelmoto switching to coating them all.

Look, both pipes are going to perform pretty close to the same if not the same but trying to sell it because one is SS is just BS. It's not going to make it run cooler or radiate less heat in this application and yes SS does have downsides just as mild steel does.

It is somehow reassuring that your persistant bashing of your competitors products is a constant in an ever changing world...   

[SE113]

Mission accomplished!   I asked my mechanic to do a bench mark run before we made any changes for comparison.  In the stock configuration Max Power was measured at 81.78 hp with Max Torque at 95.31 ft-lbs.  After adding the Fuel Moto head pipe and the Fullsac 1.75" baffles my numbers were measured at Max Power 90.65 hp  and Max Torque was 108.56 ft-lbs.  The torque curve is much smoother and comes on very strong from idle.  The sound from the Fullsac 1.75" is deep but not over powering like you would expect from some of the 2-1 pipes on the market.  Residual heat seems to be much less though it is difficult to tell because the OAT riding home was 104.8.  The radiated heat from the pavement is still extreme but my gut feeling is much cooler.  On the way home while sitting at several signals the heat management system never dropped the rear cylinder as it has done in the past.  I will put a pencil to my cost for this project but I think all in all it will be very reasonable considering.

are you going to post dyno sheet would like to compare to mine prety close numbers.

[Steve Cole]

It is somehow reassuring that your persistant bashing of your competitors products is a constant in an ever changing world...   

Where did you dream this up? I came with real world facts about what I said and I asked you to backup your claims, you could not. So you started with the bashing BS again. You may or maynot be an expert on SS but clearly you have no field experience in this application to support your claims. So who is doing the bashing around here?  Since I do not sell an exhaust kit for a HD I am not a competitor with this product and my opinion is just as valid as your is. I do happen to have 30 years of real world experience in this case and can weed out the BS.

As I've said in each and every post on this subject, SS, in this application does not make it better or worse than mild steel, they both have there good and bad points. Either one will be better than stock.

[sadunbar]

Where did you dream this up? I came with real world facts about what I said and I asked you to backup your claims, you could not. So you started with the bashing BS again. You may or maynot be an expert on SS but clearly you have no field experience in this application to support your claims. So who is doing the bashing around here?  Since I do not sell an exhaust kit for a HD I am not a competitor with this product and my opinion is just as valid as your is. I do happen to have 30 years of real world experience in this case and can weed out the BS.

As I've said in each and every post on this subject, SS, in this application does not make it better or worse than mild steel, they both have there good and bad points. Either one will be better than stock.

Please proceed...  I'm lovin every minute of it!   

[Steve Cole]

So am I. Each time you run in and put forth BS statements then when asked to back it up you run out with your tail between your legs.

[Twolanerider]

Don't waste your time Scott.  Chicks are (often [ok, sometimes]) cute when they're pretentious.  But....

[sadunbar]

So am I. Each time you run in and put forth BS statements then when asked to back it up you run out with your tail between your legs.

Virtually every form of racing uses either Inconel (an obscenely expensive material used primarily by Formula 1) or stainless steel for their exhaust systems.  Indy Cars, Nascar, Moto GP, AMA, NHRA, World Prototype... None use carbon steel....

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/exhaust_system_technology.htm

(and no one believes TTS and Fuel Moto are not business competitors)  

Please proceed...

[sadunbar]

Don't waste your time Scott.  Chicks are (often [ok, sometimes]) cute when they're pretentious.  But....

I'm approaching boredom on the topic, Don....  But it's so darn easy...

[guppytrash]

Since I do not sell an exhaust kit for a HD I am not a competitor with this product and my opinion is just as valid as your is. BAAhhhaaahha!  Yea you don't sell an exhaust and Fuelmoto no longer sells your TTS...my BS detector is pegged...your questioning of the quality of SS Fuelmoto uses...well hell Ray Charles could see were that came from.