Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[porthole]

Just got off the phone with the dealer and tech support is denying the claim, seems they wanted a download of whatever it is the ECM can tell them and it showed up with the Race Tuner installed (wasn't a secret) .

Based on it having the race tuner installed they are denying the repair. The map that was downloaded is stock except for LOWERING the rev limit to 6000 rpm, 200 less then the standard stage one download and 200 more then stock.

[jdracing]

Well, I'm pretty sure under the Mangusson Moss Act that they need to be able to explain how it is that a SERT which they produce and sell is a modification which resulted in a bent valve, or they can't rely on that as a basis to deny warranty coverage.  There is just no way those two things are related, especially since the piston shows no sign of contact and the rev limiter is reduced below the standard map for your modifications.

I know the last thing you want to think about is fighting them, but this should not end here.  Get a copy of the statute (Google it) and take it into the dealer, asking them to explain to you how the SERT caused this problem.  If the dealer doesn't think it did, I'd suggest you get him on the phone with the MoCo Service Rep, and have him tell them that.  

They are not playing nice here, Duane, and there's no reason you should roll over.  

Jeff

[HWYMAN1]

I can feel your pain. I had 1996 Heritage classic, at about 6K blew primary seal. HD said I was racing bike and abusing engine, and that was reason for failure ( had Stage I kit on EVO) .  Which to me was funny since bike would barely get out of its own way!!!  HD initially denied rebuild of both top and bottom ends. It took a lawyer and about 3 months to get it resolved. Hope yours comes out ok in long run, good luck!

[arcticdude]

I don't mean to be a stick in the mud, but aren't all the SE parts like the SERT sold "for racing only"; meaning there's no warranty once it's installed?  While you don't have any real changes over stock with your sert, that may be the one thing to void the warranty.  I think it's still up to the dealer though.  They can either do it or not.  I'm sure the moco follows warranty work and if a dealer show %-wise to be doing more than either the national or local area average, then moco would investigate; otherwise, they'll let them do what they want.   Unfortunately for some customers, you get stuck.  Hopefully the dealer will buck up and do the right thing.  They should know you and the bike and realize that something caused the valve to bend, otherwise you'll be back in the same situation in the not too distant future.

[Fired00d]

Just got off the phone with the dealer and tech support is denying the claim, seems they wanted a download of whatever it is the ECM can tell them and it showed up with the Race Tuner installed (wasn't a secret) .

Based on it having the race tuner installed they are denying the repair. The map that was downloaded is stock except for LOWERING the rev limit to 6000 rpm, 200 less then the standard stage one download and 200 more then stock.

Duane,
Just out of curiosity did this dealer do the install of SERT, and did the map download? If it was I would hope they would take care of you, and do the right thing. Good luck.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[PHAZE]

My bike is at the H-D dealer now.  I've got a SERT there with my name on it and a K & N filter and D & D Fatcats that should be delivered in the next couple of days.  The dealer is doing the install and the dyno tuning.  They're taking my money and they're telling me "we'll take care of you, but hang on to your stock parts."

I bought the extended warranty on my bike.  I don't feel extremely secure with it.  I don't want to be thrown off of this site, but do you ever wonder why we continue to support the MOCO when you get a report like this from Porthole?  This whole warranty, crossed racing flags, dance around the issue thing is the biggest joke that H-D and their dealers lay on us.  Harley offers hundreds of products with the crossed racing flags the entire time knowing that we're not going out to run in the Pepsi Touring Bike 500.  It's crazy.  The MOCO wants the money, the dealers want the money, we pay the money and then this is the treatment that Porthole gets.  Put yourself in Porthole's shoes and you can feel the pain.  OK, I'm sorry, but I needed to get that off my chest.  I'm going to go ride my Yamaha for a few minutes to calm down.

Good luck Porthole!

[Screamin_Beagle]

Fellas,
  I gotta step in here.....and I'm gonna get sh$t for this,  but here we go. First of all,  I doesn't matter what temp is is outside......the MoCo is a VEHICLE manufacturer.....that means that they build transportation vehicles for the masses (furthermore.....those vehicles should be albe to maintain normal operating temperatures for extended peroids of time......regardless of ambient temp, or what oil you run, or how big your old lady is.....it doesn't freakin matter).  You show me a car manufacturer,  that has a model that needs to be run at a max outside temp of 100 degrees or less (with a max payload of 220 lbs and only on the forst odd day of the month, and there is a manufacturer that will be out of business by the end of the week).  If a stealer is giving you bullsh$t about how you maintain your ride,  break your foot off up his a$$.  We (as a whole on this site maintain our bikes better than the average not sh$t weekend "Biker"  with their matching bandanas and their local HOG patches on the brand new black leather vest).  Get in touch of the factory a$$hole yourself and read him the riot act........Don't take the bullsh$t for the "SERVICE PUNK" at the dealership...........

Sorry all,  I get a little hot hearing stories like this one..........been there many years ago.......


_Beagle

[110tHunDer]

Yeah, go crazy on 'em!  Throw the "f" word around a few times just to show 'em who's boss!

[Twolanerider]

Fellas,
  I gotta step in here.....and I'm gonna get sh$t for this,  but here we go. First of all,  I doesn't matter what temp is is outside......the MoCo is a VEHICLE manufacturer.....that means that they build transportation vehicles for the masses (furthermore.....those vehicles should be albe to maintain normal operating temperatures for extended peroids of time......regardless of ambient temp, or what oil you run, or how big your old lady is.....it doesn't freakin matter).  You show me a car manufacturer,  that has a model that needs to be run at a max outside temp of 100 degrees or less (with a max payload of 220 lbs and only on the forst odd day of the month, and there is a manufacturer that will be out of business by the end of the week).  If a stealer is giving you bullsh$t about how you maintain your ride,  break your foot off up his a$$.  We (as a whole on this site maintain our bikes better than the average not sh$t weekend "Biker"  with their matching bandanas and their local HOG patches on the brand new black leather vest).  Get in touch of the factory a$$hole yourself and read him the riot act........Don't take the bullsh$t for the "SERVICE PUNK" at the dealership...........

Sorry all,  I get a little hot hearing stories like this one..........been there many years ago.......


_Beagle

Amen.  I'd be "diligently" making the effort to confirm that the local service writer pup's stories hold up under scrutiny.  Would also want to know precisely what he told the MoCo rep.  After all, if he couldn't distinguish between one bent valve and two he may leave a little to be desired in both his observance and explanatory skills.  After all that washes through it would seem time to be beyond diligent and absolutely adament about speaking to the MoCo service rep who denied the claim.  This may be for nothing more than to find out if he's just reading from guidelines in a book and simply doesn't understand anything outside the guidelines before him or if he's actually ever turned a wrench himself and really has something of a clue.  If the latter he needs to justify his decision.  If the former he needs to pass the baton to someone higher up the pay scale who understands what he's doing.

Honest to god it almost seems like we've got to be missing something here.  No impact marks on the piston.  That in and of itself should be all the probitive evidence they need to know a valve wasn't floated.  If it didn't hit anything it wasn't floated and bent on impact.  Period....  If they can't stipulate what they're basing their denial on beyond that it's time to assume they're too stupid ot waste your time with and figure out some way to get above their pay grade.

[Fatboy]

I think it may be a case of simple math.........

If the bike gets fixed and the MOCO pays the "Dealer" gets paid according to what the MOCO will allow for the job & parts. ie. smaller $$$

If the "Stealer" can get the customer to pay for the repair he'll make/charge about double!  
ie BIG $$$

Thus the Service Manger & the Tech both make more off the repair.........hmmm  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

[Screamin_Beagle]

Hey Fat,
   I agree,  these freakin stealers are out of control............LET'S maximize our bottom line.......get some yuppie puke who has more money than sense and see if we can rape him good.  I say BULLchit!!!!  These freakin dealers gotta learn that we (the collective mind) have way more experience than the average service puke at the dealer).  HD should start making guidlines that make sure they know more than us......case and point,  when I go in for parts,  the puke behind the counter should know more than me about more than just the last model year.  I sent a friend to SDHD for brake pads for a 99 Ultra (twin cam model....first year),  not sh$t parts boy asked if it was for a TC.....which it is,  but in '99,  thay still used the single piston calipers..........home boy argued with not sh$t parts puke,  who assured him they were the right pads and sent him back with 4 piston pads.  Needless to say,  I'm on the road....20 miles round trip to get them exchanged.  When dealers can get $8.50 for a freakin chrome bolt,  the son of a bitch better be the right one.

When it comes to service,  at $80+ an hour,  these freakin guys better be the best in the business .....not forget to tighten spark plugs (so they fall out in Borego Springs),  (leave oil dripping from the voltage regulator so I get stains on my garage floor), (or forget to put the aircleaner spacer between the cover and cover plate so when the not sh$t service puke overtightens the cover,  it pulls the PEM nut out of the backing plate).  And,  for this kind of bullsh$t,  I get to pay $300 (plus I supply the fluids) for a service that I would rather do myself.......why......buy the 7 year a$$ reaming for $1500 to give you a warm fuzzy that the bike is covered for 7 years.  OH,  BTW,  everytime you actually need the freakin thing,  you'll get some not sh$t factory puke telling you that IT'S NOT COVERED!!!!

Wait a minute.....isn't this where this conversation started???



_Bullsh$t in San Diego

[grc]

My bike is at the H-D dealer now.  I've got a SERT there with my name on it and a K & N filter and D & D Fatcats that should be delivered in the next couple of days.  The dealer is doing the install and the dyno tuning.  They're taking my money and they're telling me "we'll take care of you, but hang on to your stock parts."

I bought the extended warranty on my bike.  I don't feel extremely secure with it.  [highlight]I don't want to be thrown off of this site, but do you ever wonder why we continue to support the MOCO when you get a report like this from Porthole?  This whole warranty, crossed racing flags, dance around the issue thing is the biggest joke that H-D and their dealers lay on us.  Harley offers hundreds of products with the crossed racing flags the entire time knowing that we're not going out to run in the Pepsi Touring Bike 500. [/highlight] It's crazy.  The MOCO wants the money, the dealers want the money, we pay the money and then this is the treatment that Porthole gets.  Put yourself in Porthole's shoes and you can feel the pain.  OK, I'm sorry, but I needed to get that off my chest.  I'm going to go ride my Yamaha for a few minutes to calm down.

Good luck Porthole!

PHAZE,

Right On!  This whole thing is beyond belief to me.  The MoCo has been making big bucks for many years selling us underpowered and poorly running bikes, and then "helping" us rectify the situation by making another pile of money selling us "Off Road Use Only" parts to make the damn things run.  The whole "Off Road Use Only" thing is a barely veiled scam to bypass federal laws - the MoCo is quite aware that the 80+% of the folks buying this stuff are not just trailering their bikes to the drag strip on weekends.  Yeah, right - a 900 lb bagger dragster - K.M.A.   Too bad the EPA doesn't follow through on the provision in the law that lets them check the MoCo's sales records for these parts and compare the numbers to those of actual Harley's being run in off-road events.  The fines would be enormous.

Porthole - I know it's frustrating, but don't let these fools get to you.  Obviously the EPA has convinced the MoCo that they are finally going to enforce the law, and the MoCo has pushed that down to the dealers.  Now you have people running scared at both levels and making stupid, uninformed decisions just to try and cover their own ass.  Obviously the guy at the MoCo in "tech support" is in the wrong occupation, since he doesn't seem to understand mechanical failure modes but is more than happy to blame it on your SERT.  BTW - why didn't he mention the non-stock exhaust?  Oh, that's right - he hasn't actually seen your bike, or received any definite evidence of the root cause of the problem. Must be nice to be so smart that you can figure out the cause of a bent valve without ever leaving your desk in Milwaukee.  

If your dealer sold or installed your "Off Road" parts, and he leaves you hanging, I'd sue the SOB right along with the MoCo for breach of warranty under the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975.  One nice thing about that law, when you win you can also collect all attorneys fees and any related costs.

Jerry

[PHAZE]

It looks like the dealer should have some responsibility for installing parts if he is fully aware that he is putting the bike in violation of HDs warranty conditions.  I've never had a dealer ask me to sign a waiver that I'm giving up my rights to my warranty by having him install parts that he sold to me.  HD probably keeps the customer at arms length by making the dealer responsible for violating the customers warranty.  I know that you can file suit against anyone for anything, but it looks like you'd have a case against the dealer for not protecting the customer's interest.

[Screamin_Beagle]

We support the MoCo because they're the only game in town......OH Sh$t.......Polaris is back,  with a 100CI motor stock {is that bigger than a '96???} (that runs like a raped ape.....sorry fellas,  got a bro  works for them),  better ride, american made.......oh freak......is the old Indian/HD battle again.  I sure hope so.......maybe the MoCo will step up and fix the problem.......Oh wait....they did......we get a 96' motor that makes a whoppin'  23 hp at 9K rpm (I'm flaming now.....but the "MoCo" needs to have a rectal/cranial inversion NOW!!!).  I WILL buy American for the rest of my life,  but that does not mean HD.  If Polaris,  Indian,  Joe sh$t the rag man MC inc. comes out with something better, I'll ride it.

I spent many years riding trumpets,  Nortons,  Yamaha-somethings...Sportsters.....
I like HD because of the ride.......Let's see if the "Metrics" can build a winner


_Beagle  <EOM>

[Hogfn]

Now you have me running scared.  7 months ago, after much deliberation and consulting with different riders from this site (folks I've never met but trust implicitly), I changed out my pipes to Freedom, added PC w/custom map, stage 1 a/c, and had it dynoed at a local recommended race shop.  She's running fine, sounds great, and I'm glad I made the change although I'm nervous.  I'm taking the bike in on 1 Aug for the 12500 service check, replace the back tire, fix a small oil leak that we discoverd while on the dyno, and some other minor mods.  Is the dealer going to notice the mods and upload that fact into the system so if there ever were a problem they'll be back-pedaling in the same manner?  Business is business but there is a limit to how badly you treat your customers, especially those who appreciate the 'finer' things in life by purchasing their top-of-the-line bikes.  History is full of failed businesses who didn't stand behind their products.  On the other hand, there's an abundance of companies who stand behind their products/services and go the extra mile to keep their customers satisfied fguring the referals and continued business will add significantly to the bottom line.

Porthole, I know it's easy for us to offer support from the outside looking in, but I'd 'run this issue up the flagpole' and go full steam up to the top for the lack of support.  If they don't have proof positive then they need to stand behind you. I'm no expert, but there are other ways to gain insight into how you operate the bike.  Such things as tire replacement, belt use, maintenance logs, are just a start.  Others out there more experienced than I can suggest other ways to determine whether you 'abused' the bike.  Please fight them on this and keep this group abreast of your progress. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]